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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have expected him to make sure I got home ok?

1000 replies

Muffinmoo · 05/12/2025 15:08

First date last night with a guy who spent most of the evening telling me about how rich he was and all the companies he had owned and sold.

Left the restaurant, freezing outside. I am having trouble getting an uber. He is just standing there watching me struggle to try and book a cab. He suggests I get a black cab. Tell him I can’t really afford it. Eventually I give up and say I will walk to the tube which is about a 5-10 minute walk (I’m in heels). He walks with me part way before leaving me alone at gone midnight to go to his easiest tube stop. I have to walk to the tube in the dark by myself. He could have got the same tube line from the same station as me.
AIBU for expecting him to at least walk me to the tube if not help get me taxi??? Or is that too much these days?! 🙈

OP posts:
Calliopespa · 06/12/2025 11:45

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 11:40

It’s insane how angry some people get when women have standards for how they should be treated.

It was fine that you wanted to be accompanied to your transport home op.

I think it helps to take the male/female dimension out of it; I would do that with another female friend and I think your expectations - or standards - are not unreasonable in that regard.

It was just that he actually did wait with you for the uber, which sounds to have become quite a saga, then you rejected a possible black cab solution on the basis that it was too much for you to pay (though you did think he should have stretched to it) and I think by this stage he was probably getting fed up. But he didn't just walk straight off at the outset, and I don't think the fact that you claimed inability to cover it when he had just treated you to the meal was helpful.

I'd be getting frustrated with a female friend by that stage too.

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 11:47

Franklyannoyed · 06/12/2025 11:44

I’m happily married op, and have been for a long time. My husband and I are equal partners, and that’s everything from household chores to child rearing to finances, where we split proportionally to our incomes.

I am not in your position where I’m going out dating strangers, unable to pay for myself, can’t dress appropriately and needing paying for.

Oh did he also give birth to your children?

heterosexual relationships will never be ‘equal’ precisely for this reason. Not to mention society is far from equal when it comes to men and women.

being ‘incapable’ and expecting to be treated a certain way are not the same things.

OP posts:
Calliopespa · 06/12/2025 11:48

Brooklans · 06/12/2025 11:43

No love, you’re twisting my words again 🙂 like you did on the other thread. I said a minority. I didn’t read the rest of your post as you don’t talk much sense.

People who are ashamed of their words and can't apologise often claim they have been twisted.

Does anyone see a twist here??

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 11:49

Calliopespa · 06/12/2025 11:45

It was fine that you wanted to be accompanied to your transport home op.

I think it helps to take the male/female dimension out of it; I would do that with another female friend and I think your expectations - or standards - are not unreasonable in that regard.

It was just that he actually did wait with you for the uber, which sounds to have become quite a saga, then you rejected a possible black cab solution on the basis that it was too much for you to pay (though you did think he should have stretched to it) and I think by this stage he was probably getting fed up. But he didn't just walk straight off at the outset, and I don't think the fact that you claimed inability to cover it when he had just treated you to the meal was helpful.

I'd be getting frustrated with a female friend by that stage too.

It’s not really my fault I couldn’t get an uber. And I thought if I was walking around looking for a black cab I might as well walk to the station anyway.

I also think a man paying for dinner on a first date at a venue he chose is kind of normal.

OP posts:
MNMNMN · 06/12/2025 11:49

Franklyannoyed · 06/12/2025 11:44

I’m happily married op, and have been for a long time. My husband and I are equal partners, and that’s everything from household chores to child rearing to finances, where we split proportionally to our incomes.

I am not in your position where I’m going out dating strangers, unable to pay for myself, can’t dress appropriately and needing paying for.

Exactly. Silver wedding last year and in a very ‘equal’ relationship in every way. I am not a little damsel in distress but my expectations are very high indeed in the ways that matter.

SooticaTheWitchesCat · 06/12/2025 11:50

Franklyannoyed · 06/12/2025 11:41

it infuriates me this incapable act. This man paid for her dinner and walked her part of the way for a five min walk in central London, and she wanted more. I myself and I’ve brought my daughter up, to do better.

So that means you need to be rude? You can disagree without putting someone down you know.

FieryA · 06/12/2025 11:52

You were booking an Uber but could not afford a black cab? Doesn't make sense. And as for him offering to pay and then you reimburse- why should he? I wouldn't offer to pay for a cab for a man on a first date.
And yes, it would have been kind if he had accompanied you to the tube station but for whatever reason he didn't want to. And if that is a dealbreaker for you, so be it. Just tell him. But I have gotten the bus late at night but never expected the guy to wait till I got onto it. Sometimes whose ever's bus/cab came earlier, went. You are definitely unreasonable for not being dressed up suitable for the weather. If you can't walk 10 mins in heels, then maybe don't wear them. You can look nice, even in flat footwear.

KaleidoscopeSmile · 06/12/2025 11:55

Brooklans · 06/12/2025 09:50

You probably think you are such an enlightened being, but not everyone cares to carry a feminist badge in this day and age. We all come from different backgrounds, and hold different values and traditions. Neither is right or wrong as such, just different. There are men out there who prefer this set up too, there is someone out there for everyone. If you believe the OP and the poster you quoted have “unbelievable” views then it says more about your narrow mindedness than them.

Cheers, I do!

And I'm very narrow minded about women with views like the PPs, and yours apparently.

MNMNMN · 06/12/2025 11:56

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 06/12/2025 10:40

My DH is also from a country where those "traditional values" are very strong. He has seen the impact of that on the women in his society, and he wants something very different for our dd. As do I. And as does she.

I've noticed that some of our younger female relatives in his home country are now starting to wake up to their situations. We are always very respectful of the local culture when we visit, but by "rubbing shoulders" with me and dd, they are starting to get an insight into what a different type of life might look like, and they are realising that those traditional gender roles aren't actually set in stone. One of my nieces in particular asks endless questions and she is really starting to push back.

Also, around ten years ago, DH managed to persuade some very reluctant neighbours to let their daughter study abroad - something which they would have positively encouraged for a boy but felt was far too risky for a girl. She is doing brilliantly and has managed to build a successful career for herself, so she is now a bit of a role model for other girls in the community. And her parents' decision has been vindicated, even though they were initially criticised for letting her go.

People should of course be free to live as they wish, and they genuinely want to live a life in which they infantilise themselves asks subjugate themselves to men, then I guess that's their prerogative. However, I do think those choices are typically the result of social conditioning. I just hope that their kids will be able to break free from that mindset.

Exactly. It was not easy for my sibling and I to break the mould and go against traditional values, but I am really proud of what we have achieved. I’m proud at bringing our children up in a way that allows for freedom and equality.

Brooklans · 06/12/2025 11:56

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 06/12/2025 11:42

I certainly don't think women are idiots for living in the way in which their societies have dictated that they should live. I do feel angry on behalf of those who haven't been given genuine choices.

For those who actively choose to preserve their disadvantaged status, I feel mainly incomprehension. I'm not really clear as to whether they are simply too brainwashed to be able to make a different decision, or whether they have made an active choice to accept certain disadvantages that I would find intolerable because of some other psychological and/or material payoff that they value more highly.

Brainwashed is a strong word.

I wouldn’t say I’m disadvantaged either. I moved here to go to university, I have a degree and hold a decent job. It is simply a lifestyle choice I choose for myself. I have my own money, and I’m not uneducated.

However If I were to marry I will not be contributing 50/50 to the household. Not a chance. Not while I cut down to part time hours, while I’m raising the children and looking after the house. I’m not saying I wouldn’t contribute anything to my family, but contributing 50/50 as a woman with all that responsibility is not a fair trade in my eyes.
This is very normal in my culture though so it will not be an issue.

PurpleThistle7 · 06/12/2025 11:56

My husband and I started dating at 19 and I made more money than he did so I treated him if we went out. Then he made more money than I did so he’d treat. Then we joined up our bank accounts and no one had to talk about it anymore.

I have also never in my life needed or wanted a man to escort me to my bus stop. My husband trusts that I can go out and about in the world in whatever way I see fit, and call my own taxi whenever I want one. We take care of our children and our house and our careers jointly.

For you saying a 40 year old man should know better, I’d say that at the age you likely are, you should be able to sort out your own transport without relying on some odd notion of chivalry that doesn’t even solve the problem. If it was too late for you to be out, then how on earth would you get home once he left you at the tube stop? Surely that part of your journey was the safest anyway.

Calliopespa · 06/12/2025 11:57

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 11:49

It’s not really my fault I couldn’t get an uber. And I thought if I was walking around looking for a black cab I might as well walk to the station anyway.

I also think a man paying for dinner on a first date at a venue he chose is kind of normal.

Yes, I think it was fine that he paid for the meal.

And no you are right, it wasn't your fault you couldn't get an uber. I just think the payment thing was probably an unhelpful comment when you had both been waiting round in the cold and he knew you must have had money.

Brooklans · 06/12/2025 11:59

Calliopespa · 06/12/2025 11:48

People who are ashamed of their words and can't apologise often claim they have been twisted.

Does anyone see a twist here??

Who are you exactly, and what position are you in to imply that I owe an apology for stating what I’ve witnessed with my own eyes?

Because I’m the foreigner I’m not entitled to an option? You did twist my words. Just because you want an apology from me doesn’t mean I’m lying about you twisting my words. And how do you come to the conclusion I’m ashamed of my words either, you make a lot of assumptions from not very much.

Allthatwegotisthispalebluedot · 06/12/2025 12:03

It’s so strange to me that the OP talks about ‘standards being through the floor’. It wouldn’t occur to me that an adult needed hand holding during a five minute walk to a tube station, and if they did, they would not meet my standards for what I expect for a partner and a second date would not happen.

Calliopespa · 06/12/2025 12:03

Brooklans · 06/12/2025 11:59

Who are you exactly, and what position are you in to imply that I owe an apology for stating what I’ve witnessed with my own eyes?

Because I’m the foreigner I’m not entitled to an option? You did twist my words. Just because you want an apology from me doesn’t mean I’m lying about you twisting my words. And how do you come to the conclusion I’m ashamed of my words either, you make a lot of assumptions from not very much.

Edited

Like you, a woman who is proud of my own culture and the women who from part of it and who will call people to account when they do so in a way that goes beyond opinion to outright denigration.

I haven't insulted your culture though ... so I guess that's where our similarities end.

ETA And fwiw I don't believe I did twist your words at all. I just think you misunderstood the point I was making - which admittedly got convoluted by the fact you kept misunderstanding it.

Cornishwafer · 06/12/2025 12:04

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 11:40

It’s insane how angry some people get when women have standards for how they should be treated.

I think people should have standards.. both men and women.

Its a bit grim going on about how much money you make from multiple businesses on a first date but so is vocalising that you don't want to pay for a cab when you've just been treated to dinner. Its the mention of money in either case...why should it be tasteless for a man to go on about how much he has but not so for a woman to moan that she doesnt want to pay extra for a cab.

I dont really understand why you objected to paying for a cab yourself but would have happily let him pay then reimbursed him...the cost would have been the same to you.

That said, even if he wasnt that into you he should have offered to walk you to your tube station.

Shinyandnew1 · 06/12/2025 12:05

I also think a man paying for dinner on a first date at a venue he chose is kind of normal.

I don't think him suggesting a venue has got anything to do with it. If you didn't want to go there, you could have said no and suggested somewhere else.

Unless going on this bizarre line of thought, if suggesting the venue means you should pay, does staying quiet when it comes to deciding where to go, mean you never have to pay-do you do that a lot?

Cob81 · 06/12/2025 12:05

Itisatruthuniversallyacknowledged · 05/12/2025 15:10

How on earth do you manage life when you’re not on a date?

THIS!! Like why do women EXPECT everything done for them, do it your flipping self as you would every other day of your life and quit the whinging. Maybe I’m just too independent but I can’t understand how people function perfectly fine usually yet when with a man suddenly turn into a damn toddler 😆

ChamonixMountainBum · 06/12/2025 12:06

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 11:49

It’s not really my fault I couldn’t get an uber. And I thought if I was walking around looking for a black cab I might as well walk to the station anyway.

I also think a man paying for dinner on a first date at a venue he chose is kind of normal.

I think these days the whole who pays on a date depends on the circumstances in which you met. If the guy approached you and asked you out then yeah I would expect the guy to choose a venue and pay for dinner. If you met online/tinder etc you go Dutch.

Brooklans · 06/12/2025 12:07

Calliopespa · 06/12/2025 12:03

Like you, a woman who is proud of my own culture and the women who from part of it and who will call people to account when they do so in a way that goes beyond opinion to outright denigration.

I haven't insulted your culture though ... so I guess that's where our similarities end.

ETA And fwiw I don't believe I did twist your words at all. I just think you misunderstood the point I was making - which admittedly got convoluted by the fact you kept misunderstanding it.

Edited

I clearly said a minority. Two other posters reminded you of this on the other thread, not just myself. This is what I mean when I say you’re twisting my words.

Take your defensiveness elsewhere.

BarryBannan · 06/12/2025 12:09

Brooklans · 06/12/2025 12:07

I clearly said a minority. Two other posters reminded you of this on the other thread, not just myself. This is what I mean when I say you’re twisting my words.

Take your defensiveness elsewhere.

This is all derailing the original comment.

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 12:10

Cob81 · 06/12/2025 12:05

THIS!! Like why do women EXPECT everything done for them, do it your flipping self as you would every other day of your life and quit the whinging. Maybe I’m just too independent but I can’t understand how people function perfectly fine usually yet when with a man suddenly turn into a damn toddler 😆

I am extremely independent.

however, if I am going to be financially and physically disadvantaged when I have children (we have laws to protect women for this very reason so can we please not pretend this isn’t just a basic fact) then I want to date someone who can demonstrate that they are willing and capable of looking after me. Being pregnant and giving birth is the most vulnerable time of a woman’s life.

dating (amongst other things) is partly a test to see how someone will treat you in a relationship. Not a reflection of my own capability as an independent adult.

he failed at the most basic level IMO.

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 06/12/2025 12:12

Brooklans · 06/12/2025 11:56

Brainwashed is a strong word.

I wouldn’t say I’m disadvantaged either. I moved here to go to university, I have a degree and hold a decent job. It is simply a lifestyle choice I choose for myself. I have my own money, and I’m not uneducated.

However If I were to marry I will not be contributing 50/50 to the household. Not a chance. Not while I cut down to part time hours, while I’m raising the children and looking after the house. I’m not saying I wouldn’t contribute anything to my family, but contributing 50/50 as a woman with all that responsibility is not a fair trade in my eyes.
This is very normal in my culture though so it will not be an issue.

So it's all hypothetical for you at the moment? Honestly, you just sound a bit naive if I'm honest.

It sounds like there is no reason for you to feel disadvantaged right now, as you have your independence and no real responsibilities. You might feel very differently after a decade or two of marriage and a couple of kids down the line. I've seen plenty of women make that shift.

You are, of course, free to live as you see fit. If you can find a husband who is happy for you not to contribute financially, then there is nothing to stop you from living like that. But be aware that the financial arrangements between couples often have an impact on the power dynamics within a relationship, and on expectations around unpaid domestic labour etc. It's very easy for women to get trapped in unhappy situations and can be much harder for them to get out if they don't maintain their financial independence. And even where they are not in difficult or abusive relationships, they may still find that they really struggle with the decisions that they have made..my own mum did.

Of course, you might be one of the lucky ones and live a charmed life in which you don't regret any of your choices. But that isn't how life works out for everyone.

Franklyannoyed · 06/12/2025 12:13

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 12:10

I am extremely independent.

however, if I am going to be financially and physically disadvantaged when I have children (we have laws to protect women for this very reason so can we please not pretend this isn’t just a basic fact) then I want to date someone who can demonstrate that they are willing and capable of looking after me. Being pregnant and giving birth is the most vulnerable time of a woman’s life.

dating (amongst other things) is partly a test to see how someone will treat you in a relationship. Not a reflection of my own capability as an independent adult.

he failed at the most basic level IMO.

Edited

Why? I certainly wasn’t, neither are millions of other women. We certainly don’t need to play the victim card, and no a first date isn’t some test to see if he will pay for you if you end up marrying him and having babies.

stop looking for a man to do it for you and start having some independence and self respect. If you’re dating 40 year olds then hopefully you’re not much younger and should be in a position in life that you won’t be disadvantaged. If you’re not that’s on you.

Cob81 · 06/12/2025 12:15

Muffinmoo · 06/12/2025 08:02

Bit of a reach to say that allowing a man who has invited me to a restaurant of his choice to pay for dinner means I have no self respect.
Men love to harp on about 50:50 when it suits them. Sadly the world is not 50:50.

to those saying it isn’t his ‘responsibility’ to pay, or he wasn’t ‘responsible’ for my choice of heels are missing the point. I never said he was responsible. It’s about basic care and respect. The misogynistic comments on here are wild.

He was actually keen to meet again and I told him leaving me to walk alone late at night wasn’t great and I wasn’t interested. Hopefully he will be a little bit more aware with the next girl.

Out of curiosity, if you’d have suggested the restaurant would you have paid? Judging by your replies on what you expect from a man, I highly doubt you would have, if you’d have suggested the place, ended up 🔝 sting and he paid for a cab home for you, then you’d be on here whinging about the fact he left you to pay for the meal 🙄 You’re behaving like a self entitled child, it’s not about “standards” look after yourself woman like you do every other day of your life with no man to baby you.

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