AIBU - 2 year old suddenly crying at nursery with male staff member

[Francine84]

I might be being completely unreasonable here but I can’t get it out of my head. My 2 year old started nursery around 9 months ago and has always been very happy there. Always happy to go in and they told us that she’s happy all day, hardly ever cries.

In the last week she has become very clingy, waking up crying from naps and during the night calling for me. Really out of character for her but I put it down to separation anxiety.

She goes to nursery Wed-Fri and yesterday when I dropped her off the only male member of the nursery staff answered the door and my daughter burst into tears and was clinging to me. It was heartbreaking, I had to hand her over and she was hysterical. When I picked her up in the afternoon her key worker (female) said she was emotional all day, which again is so unlike her. She hasn’t cried at nursery drop off since she first started earlier this year. And even then once she had settled in she was happy all day.

This morning the same man answered the door again and the same thing happened - hysterical crying and holding on to me.

Given the recent news about a male nursery worker abusing the children in his care I can’t shake the thought that something is wrong. Why is my daughter suddenly so clingy and unhappy? I know that men work in nurseries but it seems like it’s only this particular member of staff that she has that reaction with.

AIBU to say something to nursery? What would I even say?

Or am I overreacting and this is normal for 2 year olds to have very clingy phases? I just want to protect her and it makes me feel so sad to think she’s not happy at nursery.

Advice would be much appreciated!

I know of a few 2 year olds who went through a separation anxiety phase at nursery for a few weeks. No real reason and it was all around 2-2.5 years old.

I can see this must be troubling for you, OP, especially given the timing. I'm with PP advocating for talking to the nursery manager. How they react will already tell you a lot - how seriously they take you, how well they know your DD, what action they propose to take.

Unfortunately, we live in a climate where it's easy to jump to conclusions. My DD had two of her strongest nursery relationships with male employees, then two male teachers at juniors. Negative thoughts about male carers for pre-school children had never occurred to me (probably because my dad did the bulk of the childcare when I was young so a man looking after me was what I was used to) until DD, then nine, took to leaving her musical instrument at home. I was mystified. A musician friend asked me if she liked the teacher. I had never asked her, focussing instead on instrument choice. I did then ask her. She said she didn't like him but was unable to say why. I probed, very carefully, fearful of CSA, even though there were three girls in the lesson. The school year ended, DD gave up the instrument after doing her first exam, and started piano with a female teacher. DD is now 22. Only in the last year has she revealed that she didn't like him because he spent the lesson on his phone.

This is a longwinded way of saying: be thorough and careful, while reminding yourself that the worst case scenario is not the most likely scenario, and that involving the GP and police now would up the ante in a way not helpful for your DD.

Typo

Would it not make a bit more sense to investigate and see what the issue is for the child?

It may be because the worker is male - but it could be that she is unfamiliar with men (which would definitely be a self-fulfilling prophecy if some of the people on here blanket-banned men from working with children), it could be his deeper voice, his larger size, if he has a beard etc. or it could just be him as an individual for some very silly reason.

Children take against unfamiliar people and circumstances and seize on very peripheral characteristics that they just aren't used to. If it were the first black nursery worker that the little one had ever encountered, or the first one with a facial disfigurement, or the first one who wore glasses, or the first older one with grey hair or whatever - nobody would be leaping to saying that the child must be 'protected from' anybody with that characteristic.

Yes, of course concerns should be investigated; but getting upset is in the basic nature of very young children as they gain new experiences and learn about the world - even the smallest things that they aren't yet familiar with. Taking it ad absurdum, you might as well say that, if a baby cries in anybody's presence, that person is clearly a problem who is upsetting them and causing them distress, and must therefore never be allowed near them again - including presumably the baby's own parents.

I would raise it with them, she's distressed on separation and to date this has been with this one member of staff. She's 2, she isn't expected to be rational and they want to have her with a member of staff she gets on with. Clarify whether she's with him, and if she's still in nappies whether he is responsible for those or not.
I have a feeling that my DCs' nursery had a two person policy for nappies, even back 10+ years ago. Does your DD's nursery have this also?

and I think I’ll ask about the nappy changing situation. Possibly I’m being ridiculous but I would feel so much happier if she were changed by a woman.

It worries me that parents have become so worried about upsetting men that they would even think it is ridiculous to question that a man is allowed to do young children’s intimate care.

DBS checks only catch sex offenders if they have been previously caught being sex offenders. Some professions that give men special access to children attract male predators. They can be very cunning at hiding their behaviour. Given all we know about male sex offenders, why would anyone let a man give their child intimate care?

Why risk the safety of our children?

I suspect those flippantly telling her to get her child checked at the GP are lucky enough not to have real life experience of this. It’s not a quick trip to the GP, it’s a trip to the nearest hospital with the correctly qualified staff (for example our nearest is a hospital 2.5 hours away), and an invasive exam which has the potential to traumatise them. Obviously this isn’t offered when a child is experiencing very usual 2 year old behaviour.

OP wouldn’t be remotely unreasonable to raise the change kn behaviour with the nursery, check their nappy change policy and generally keep a very close eye on behaviour, but to jump straight to police and GP based solely on what she’s said is ridiculous.

When my DS was 2 a male worker started working at his nursery. A lot of the parents complained that their kids came home smelling strongly of aftershave. Around the same time my DS started getting very upset about going in because a man called 'Car Alarm'(!) was getting cross and touching him when he was lying down for his nap. As you can imagine I was massively panicking.

It turned out it was a woman called Carla who was the lunchtime cover, and who DS had incorrectly identified as a man, who was trying to pat him to go to sleep for his nap, which they did for everyone, and he didn't like it. It was resolved by asking them not to pat him.

The male member of staff had a different name and was the son of the owner making money as a summer job, and very popular, hence all the aftershavey cuddles.

So my point it - toddlers aren't the best at articulating things. Try and find out more before you take drastic action, particularly if you like the setting otherwise.

I don’t really understand the GP or police comments but I would say youre concerned about how upset your dd is and can she spend more time with the female workers she is closer to. Also ask and get them to affirm the nappy situation as a separate point.

The people saying it’s definitely nothing and
you should blindly trust them scare
me.

Poor car alarm 😅

A lot of little children are scared of strange men. Biologically normal and safe seeking behaviours. But of course it should be addressed and your daughter should feel
safe.

I hate how women in this country are so scared of offending someone. It doesnt matter. You are the client and your child
is disressed.

While there could be a number of reasons I would always always always trust your gut. You know your child.

The male nursery worker who was recently arrested is not the only one. Most men who abuse children find ways to work with them - Doctors, nurses, nursery workers, foster parents, clergy, Boy Scout leaders. I often think in the name of being progressive and pc we are scared to name the very real increase in risks.

It’s not about offending someone, it’s about making a very serious allegation without any evidence.

A female athlete said re. abuse in sport - ‘not all coaches are paedophiles but all paedophiles would like to be coaches’

@Possiblyfamous that is spot on.

Robust safeguarding policies exist to keep children safe—full stop. Whether a nursery worker is male or female shouldn’t matter.

If you don’t trust the nursery’s procedures, if you’re not confident your child is safe, why would you leave them there at all?

The real focus is on trusting the safeguarding procedures.

(part of my job is safeguarding children, including checking nursery’s and schools)

Please watch this video on safeguarding made a few years ago. A group of about 70 students on a safeguarding course for social workers was told to consider that up to 3 people IN THAT ROOM or approx 5% of a given group of people will be there with the sole purpose of sexually abusing children. It’s quite horrifying.

She also rightly points out that there has been a big push to undermine safeguarding over the last 10-15 years by trans and ‘queer theory’ activists.

I was told the same in teaching. Those men will be attracted to those careers.

Me either. I turned up one day to collect my DD and there was a male agency worker who I’d not ever been introduced to, nor informed of. I’m sure he was very sweet and totally innocent but I pulled DD out. There were other very personal reasons contributing to it, but I think I still would have done regardless.

Don’t be so utterly hysterical! Police, purely because a 2yr old cried at drop off twice?! Breathtaking….😧

If you're going to choose the sex of your nursery workers from statistics, you need to use the correct statistics.

What percentage of men in the UK commit sexual offences?
What percentage of male nursery workers commit sexual offences against the children in their care?

Those are more relevant statistics.

That's impossible to know though, as you don't know how many male nursery workers are abusing children and haven't been caught, so those stats are going to be lower than the reality. All you can reliably judge on is which sex has the lowest overall risk by an enormous amount.

Why would you deliberately choose to leave your child with the demographic that commits 98% of all sexual abuse?

I'm sure the percentage of XL Bullys who actually attack people is really low. But no one would say a person is hysterical for not letting their toddler spend eight hours a day, five days a week with one.

98 percent of CSA convictions are held by men. That is the only relevant statistic and im
nit sure why people aren’t taking it seriously.

An Australian survey concluded that one in six men or 15% admitted sexual feelings towards children. I do dread to think how many it would be if every one was honest.

I’ve no idea why people can’t see why male nursery workers are a bad idea.

Yes - on VERY RARE occasions children are harmed by females.

But until we invent a robot, SOMEONE has to look after children and it makes sense to avoid the sex class that is VASTLY more statistically likely to abuse.