AIBU - 2 year old suddenly crying at nursery with male staff member

[Francine84]

I might be being completely unreasonable here but I can’t get it out of my head. My 2 year old started nursery around 9 months ago and has always been very happy there. Always happy to go in and they told us that she’s happy all day, hardly ever cries.

In the last week she has become very clingy, waking up crying from naps and during the night calling for me. Really out of character for her but I put it down to separation anxiety.

She goes to nursery Wed-Fri and yesterday when I dropped her off the only male member of the nursery staff answered the door and my daughter burst into tears and was clinging to me. It was heartbreaking, I had to hand her over and she was hysterical. When I picked her up in the afternoon her key worker (female) said she was emotional all day, which again is so unlike her. She hasn’t cried at nursery drop off since she first started earlier this year. And even then once she had settled in she was happy all day.

This morning the same man answered the door again and the same thing happened - hysterical crying and holding on to me.

Given the recent news about a male nursery worker abusing the children in his care I can’t shake the thought that something is wrong. Why is my daughter suddenly so clingy and unhappy? I know that men work in nurseries but it seems like it’s only this particular member of staff that she has that reaction with.

AIBU to say something to nursery? What would I even say?

Or am I overreacting and this is normal for 2 year olds to have very clingy phases? I just want to protect her and it makes me feel so sad to think she’s not happy at nursery.

Advice would be much appreciated!

Does anyone one not find it strange how it's become widespread and normal to put our children, at their most vulnerable ages, for hours on end with total strangers, often which aren't even known in the wider community?? And then you add the element of having them over to a man??

We talk about the importance of giving the most vulnerable women & girls access to single sex services & spaces, yet these very small children don't have the choice of accepting regular, intimate level of care from men.

The problem is, it could be something and it could be nothing. My daughter was happy going to nursery then suddenly went through am extremely clingy phase around 2.5 where she cried at every drop off for around 2-3 weeks then it just stopped and she was happy to go again.

Has she had the same reaction to other staff?

It could be something innocent, like her just going through a phase, but personally if my child was inconsolable at nursery there's no way I would leave her there as until they can speak and explain why, you just don't know the reason. It's not worth the risk.

Police? Wtf am I reading?

Child cries at nursery drop off shocker.

As soon as I read the title I thought CSA, and I hadn't even read what you wrote about the nursery or the male worker.

I would take DC out of the nursery and I would have a word with the "boss" and tell them about the child's behaviour - you're not making accusations because you have no evidence, but your DC's reactions are facts and the nursery owes you an explanation for why they think your child behaves this way in his presence. Your child is communicating something to you, even though they do not have the words to articulate their distress. Please listen. Even if it turns out to be something innocent.

Do I find it strange to put children "for hours on end" (nice bit of emotive language there to refer to school hours/working days) when mums go out to work more nowadays either due to necessity or choice?
No, I don't. Why is it strange? It's a necessity, surely if you work.
What else are you supposed to do if you work?
Pack in work and go back to the kitchen?
Take them to work with you and stick them in a drawer like the receptionist did in the Brittas Empire?! 🙄😁
As if mums don't get enough shit and guilt trips for daring to go out to work as it is. 🙄

If Your instincts are telling you that it is this man in particular, listen to them and don’t send your child there another day. If you are just worried in general, then I would ask that they have another worker do the next intake and see what happens.

It's made me think of when I dropped my eldest off at nursery a while back. Used to get so upset, cried eyes out on drop off 😭💔 Even though the nursery workers used to say "they're fine when you've gone" it was heartbreaking wrenching.
Then one day I decided to hang back and peek through the door and saw for myself them running around and laughing and playing with stuff.
I'm there thinking "oof you little actor, had me going there" lol

I both think that positive male role models are important for young children, and know that men represent a far greater risk to children.

I find it a very difficult tension.

In my experience, the nurseries with more male staff are actually the ones which pay higher wages and often have higher levels of staff education. So the risk balance is tipped in an unusual way there.

The thing is, the social stigma around safeguarding still exists massively despite growing public awareness. People still do find it very difficult to question the motives of an individual they know; the idea that it is the ultimate insult to even think a male might have bad intentions.

And the very people who are most responsible for children's wellbeing - women - are also socialised from birth not to upset men.

I would like men (as a class) and the organisations which employ them to shoulder the burden of awkwardness around safeguarding questions. They need to be proactive and transparent about their safeguarding policies and routines within nurseries etc. Men ought to expect to have to actively demonstrate their safety, routinely and constantly. If a male worker isn't an abuser and if policies and procedures are sound, this ought to be easy.

@Francine84 totally understandable with the recent news and obviously i don't know but i do remember my boys going through a weird stage of doing that too then stopped as suddenly as they started so could be one of these toddler phases

I can’t believe all the people saying they wouldn’t use a nursery with male workers - wtf?!! I’ve never heard anything so ridiculous! Are we saying only women can care for small children? What age is it ok for a man to be in charge of a child?

It’s actually a very common stage for babies to go through.

Is she around men much OP? I was always scared of men, well into my teens for absolutely no bad reason, they just weren't what I was used to.

I would speak to the nursery, tell them you're concerned about your daughters behaviour and want to try to figure out whether it's nursery in general or men in general or this particular man she has a reaction to.

I feel very sorry for all men working in nurseries, and their employers at the moment. Having positive male presences is a blessing for kids but very good safeguarding processes need to be in place.

Honestly the amount of times I had to reassure parents that as soon as they leave their baby is fine 😂. Because the minute the parent goes, they get all settled with their lil friends and cause mayhem 😆

Very often, they are giving you what they think you want/need.

My DD said to me recently that she loves me more than Daddy. I said that I loved her and I loved Daddy and I knew they both loved me, and there wasn't any competition between us. She thought about that and then said that actually she loved us both the same.

In her head, she thought she was giving me a compliment and making me feel loved, it didn't really mean she loved her Dad any less.

Same often goes for nursery drop off- they cry and cling because they think that makes you feel loved.

As someone who has personal, extensive experience with the way men can and will sexually abuse children, and as someone who is very aware of the cold, hard statistics regarding the elevated risk of a male caring for a child versus the risk of a female caring for a child, I never left my children alone with any male except their father.

Personally, I don't find it ridiculous. Men pose a far, far greater risk than women, and considering the potential catastrophic harm, I'm unwilling to gamble those odds with my children's safety and well-being.

Once a child is at primary school and able to understand personal boundaries, provide their own toileting/cleaning care, and communicate clearly, I think having male staff is an acceptable risk.

Haven't read the whole thread but wasn't there a nursery where a female was abusing children and making films or something?

So she had never been bothered by him before. A high profile news story and suddenly he is a problem. It is far more likely this is just a developmental phase.

It would be OTT to start calling the police or asking for medical exams because a child cried at drop off on two occasions. I would be asking the nursery if anything else has changed from their lens recently, how is she the rest of the day, can they mix and match who answers the door etc.

My kids both had male key workers from nursery or preschool. In their KS1 years, it was probably close to. 50:50 ratio. When they were little, the MN narrative was that we needed to encourage men into the caring professions. We seem to have swung to persistent fear of men, whatever they are doing. It is not healthy. While the majority of sex offenders may be men, that does not mean the majority of men are sex offenders.

Agreed.
My DD also 2 was suddenly like this last week. No male staff, no obvious reason, distressing for us but suddenly this week back to normal.
Ask for a different member of staff to answer door and see what reaction is

Op trust your gut because the alternative is that it’s nothing which would be a relief. I would speak to the police for advice via their none emergency line.

You need to check if the male has had access to your child in the toilets or changing area. Away from other staff members. That in itself is sufficient for suspicion given that this is now on the rise. There is no way I would be leaving. Her with him again.

Please do all the victims of this horrendous crime a favour and stop making excuses for men. How deep rooted is some people’s misogyny? Why on earth would you be more worried about offending men when the risk posed to children goes through the roof when men are present in a nursery. Men make up 99 percent of the convictions for CSA. Do you even understand how that risk translates into real time and especially in a nursery setting?

That’s a very unhealthy attitude

Seems to be a pretty popular opinion on this thread/Mumsnet generally ....

A lot of the men in nurseries that I have worked with have been ND.

Why on earth wouldn't some men want a job caring for children? Yes, it's always going to be a career that appeals more to women, but you can't think of any men - dads, grandads, uncles or those without kids of their own but who have always loved children, who would find it greatly satisfying and rewarding caring for them and seeing them grow up? Do people really think that men as a group are a binary whereby they either really don't like children at all or otherwise they're paedophiles?

Yes, there are the gross parts as well as the lovely ones - like changing nappies, mopping up puke and dealing with tantrums - but female workers don't seem to be deterred by this, although I can't for a moment think that any of them actively enjoy those bits; so why on earth would any woman want a job looking after other people's children?

Yes, of course we always need to be conscious of risks and be super strict on safeguarding in all jobs involving children and vulnerable people; but do we not want a modern world with equality and integration in the workplace, rather than strictly male jobs and female jobs?

Do we look back nostalgically to the days when people would gasp and be visibly panicking when they got on a plane and a female voice came over the tannoy saying "Welcome, ladies and gentlemen - I'm Jane, your pilot"? If somebody calls out a plumber or electrician through an agency and a female one turns up, are they as well to send her away and ask for a male one instead, "just to make sure the job is done properly and safely by somebody proper who will know what he's doing"? After all, why would a woman even want to do those jobs anyway, eh?

As PP have said, there's no such thing as a permanently female-only nursery. They wouldn't need to inform parents if a male employee joined tomorrow, any more than they would think to notify any potentially racist parents if a black employee joined. The only way you can guarantee who looks after your children is to look after them yourself and never use any paid childcare.