Need people's views on what just happened in my home

[Spiderwoman123]

6 year old ASD son. He is currently in process of EHCP application. He struggles socially, has no friends, has weird things about food

H has always said im too soft. Letting him have pudding when hes only eaten cucumber. That kind of thing. H gets v frustrated at DS not eating as H is the house chef really. H always been pretty resistant to adapting parenting but accepts diagnosis and is kind and loving but can also be v inflexible and quick to anger.H much prefers younger DS (none of same challenges). H can get pretty grumpy

Right. So dinner time. DS refusing to eat chicken as he says different to normal stuff. H getting wound up. Me trying to reduce tension. DS says "stop looking at me" as H staring at him. H looks mad. DS getting mad too. Tension rising and both sniping at each other. DS goes to slap H. Its pretty half hearted. DS used to hit a lot when meltdown and we have worked on it a lot together but it still happens. DS barely touches H. H says this is because he moved out the way.

H in response raises his hand to hit DS. I think. Stops himself and then picks up DS chair off the ground and tips it over so that DS falls onto hard kitchen floor. Not from some great height but he definitely picked up the chair and tipped it fully so DS (who was curled up on chair crying) onto floor. Pur kitchen has a fake concrete floor thing

DS bawling. H saying he didn't mean to but he wanted DS to leave room. H saying im overreacting and started blaming me for my shitty parenting!

Currently putting two v upset boys to bed. I think it's fucking horrendous. H thinks DS went to hit him and H was just getting him to leave the room

Pls tell me what to do

Stop being so bloody melodramatic.

Your poor DS, and poor you. I have been where you are @Spiderwoman123 , almost exactly...except the incident that I remember was my XH hitting my then 3 year old son really hard "in retaliation" for DS having thrown a teddy which landed in his face (it wasn't thrown into his face, it's just three year olds don't have great aim, do they?). I walked into the room with DS in shock saying "daddy hit me" and XH trying to justify it. I was so angry with him (I rarely do anger) that I locked him out and he spent the night in his car. It took me two years after that to find the strength to leave - he said he was getting anger management help from the GP which I believed, but I found out later he lied to them about what had happened - and DS and I are now on our own and much, much happier. XH is still unpleasant, but we're not in a house with him 24/7 and that makes all the difference, for DS and for me. Get you and the kids out of there love, you all deserve better.

I don’t think we’re talking about a severely autistic child. In truth that dinner time issue is a scene in many households worldwide ND or not. Give a 6 yo the option of eating a cake or their chicken & veg I don’t think it would raise to many eyebrows on what would be chosen & this is precisely the option this lad has been given. ND or not, this kid knows right from wrong. He knows his dad behaviour wasn’t right. He knew as he half intentionally lashed out that was wrong. He has an understanding, he knows telling the school will scare mom & there is consequences. again im not defending the dad. He is WRONG. However, the mom is undermining his authority. He cooked dinner & hence should be in charge of the dinner routine. The dad has a legitimate reason to be frustrated.

If you lack empathy then you should be quiet then rather than giving unhelpful advice to a mum who is struggling.

Your post made me cry. I have an autistic son. If my husband did this to my little boy I would divorce him. Please don’t make your son live with this any longer. Aside from the violence and the shouting, it is cruel to force an autistic child with food aversion to eat. You are a good mum. Please tell the school.

What that his little wife and child don’t bend to his will and appreciate the cooking he does for them

he has no reason to act like that or prevent his son having noise cancelling headphones at all

and let’s face it if a 6 year old knows right from wrong so does a fully grown adult - and what he did was wrong and crossed a line.

I pulled someone off a chair one in reception she was sitting on my chair that was tagged with my name and I properly and rightly got told off because it was an awful thing to do and the teacher rightly did not want to listen to any reasons I had (it was my chair) because there was no excuse or reasoning to justify me pulling her off that chair

My DF was like this unfortunately. It can definitely be a feature of undiagnosed ASD. Everything was always someone else's fault as they simply cannot bear that they might be in the wrong at all, to the point where they twist reality to suit their own version of events where they are the innocent party. It was very exhausting growing up with a parent like this. Numerous examples include being blamed as a 6 year old for having my fingers trampled by my dad when he stepped on them (he did a lot of things like this as he struggles with proprioception) simply because they were "in the way" rather than he should have just been looking where he was going. I've lost count of the amount of times I would get my fingers trapped in car doors or the front door etc when I was little as my dad didn't look properly when shutting doors etc. Again it would all be my fault and I would get shouted at.

One of the worst times (I don't remember this but have been told the story by my grandmother) was when I was a baby and my dad was looking after me while my mum was in work. He made me soup but forgot to check if it was cooled before giving me a spoonful. Unsurprisingly it burnt my mouth badly and I must have been screaming the house down. My dad then phoned my mum in work and said "NimbleDreamer has burnt her mouth on some soup and it's all YOUR fault!". How he came to that conclusion I have no idea. My mum then told him to take me to my grandmother's house so she could look after me instead.

People like this rarely change especially if they won't accept that there is anything wrong with them and that they are always in the right.

What would you do?

This seems like the most sensible repose here (caveat if husband is generally a reasonable and kind person)

You really cannot diagnose OP's son as not severely autistic. What makes you qualified to do that without even meeting him?

He ate all his vegetables but, to him, the chicken nuggets didn't taste or feel right. What on earth is wrong with leaving some food on your plate. Adults do it all the time if they are full or aren't particularly enjoying it. Why is a neurodivergent child with an eating disorder held to a higher standard?

Just to point out again that you need to find out if your husband has been abusing your son when you are not around. In the eyes of the law you are also responsible if you fail to report and intervene in this abuse.

Your husband is currently acting like the third child. When I was pregnant my DH sold all his gaming equipment because he didn’t want his kid to see him sat around gaming, ignoring them all the time. No one asked him to do that he just did it because he wanted to be a responsible adult parent. I’m not sure why half these other posters think it’s your responsibility to turn him into a decent parent. Your only responsibility here is too your kid. I really hope you can find the strength to do what is right. (Your son may well be a lot better regulated and easier to handle without an antagonistic adult bullying him all the time anyway)

It doesn’t sound as though he is. The OP sounds deeply unhappy in her marriage. I also don’t think that undiagnosed autism is an excuse for physical violence. I think she should leave him, and I really hope her son tells as responsible adult at school what has happened.

I held him to no higher standard. In fact I held him to the same standard as every other 6yo in the country. He didn’t want the nuggets but wanted the dessert. Dad didn’t want to give him dessert, mom did. If im holding anyone up to any standards it’s mom & dad.

this boy isn’t in the region of non verbal or lacks understanding of right or wrong as he clearly knows the difference. Hence there should be some boundaries

I'm sorry but your H was physically abusive towards your son. What you describes sounds very violent. H has anger issues. It's especially shocking as your DS's issues are known to him. Your H won't change and YOU cannot change him. You already know the only way to stop this is to stop being under the same roof as him.

Your DH is being abusive and only barely managed to control his anger enough to not full force hit your child. He resorted to knocking him off his chair onto the ground instead. What a prince.

There is no excuse for this anger. Full stop. My teenage son ASD had never managed to eat potato’s. Are they my favourite thing in the world that I cook regularly? Yes. Have I tried him on every variation? Also yes. He cannot. He won’t have gravy on his roast either. Is it worth me getting angry at him over?? Fuck no. Why would I? He is now very, very good at eating his vegetables.

My younger son, also ASD, could not eat chicken for a very long time. I once tried to insist he ate a bit and after biting into it he cried and vomited on his own dinner. Ten years down the line he happily eats chicken. Do you think he would be comfortable now if I continued to force things into his mouth he had such a strong aversion to?? He is also good at eating his vegetables, except for broccoli. Do I like broccoli? Yes. Will I eat it in front of him, will I cook it? Fuck yes. And I will make sure every time that no breath of broccoli touches any of my son’s food. Because it’s fine if he doesn’t like things or struggles with their texture.

Where is your husbands anger coming from? So much aggression towards a child that just doesn’t like a certain food? His own little boy? Nah. Get him gone or at least into therapy before this escalates further. There is no justification for him being aggressive to a child.

I spoke to family advice charity this morning who were quite helpful. They told me i should focus on our relationship. I guess to that point of us being disconnected as parents is because we aren't connected as a couple. They did tell me on balance i should probably talk to school. They were concerned about clear preferential treatment of younger DS as highly damaging to DS1. But they also said what you guys have said about if it's one off - we all do things we regret - but it's about response afterwards. Will H accept help? SOmeone said he would listen to experts and not me - and that is totally right. If he did get on a course he would listen, but he won't listen to me.

I've emailed the school.

Just to clear things up about the cooking - I do offer to help with cooking a lot but H much rather he does it.

That advice is very questionable. I wonder what version of events you gave them

So a child that "hits" people is deemed violent and in need of help.
But the adult male who threw his six year old son to a hard floor is what? Stressed? Frustrated? Reacting to provocation?
He is violent, abusive and controlling.
I suggest people who claim that OP is overreacting look at the Power and Control Wheel model of domestic abuse.

OP, I was a social worker for 22 years.
If you are in England or Wales, the Domestic Abuse Act 2021 deems that both your children are victims of domestic abuse: your son because he was assaulted; and your other child because he was present at the time.

I would take your son to the GP to be checked, and explain what your husband did to him.
I would also ask for support to phone the police from the surgery.
I would then inform the safeguarding lead at your son's school.
This way, you have demonstrated that you have acted to protect both children.
The police will remove your husband.
Children's Services will contact you to provide support.

Or

Sit it out, put off making any decisions and when your husband assaults your child again, and if/when your children disclose this and and any other assaults, you will be asked what steps you took to protect both children.
The police will remove your husband.
Children's Services will contact you and are likely to initiate a s.47 enquiry under the Children Act 1989, as your children will be considered to be suffering/likely to suffer significant harm.
Possible outcomes - enhanced family support, child protection conference, care proceedings.

That's not scaremongering. Please keep posting.

Yes quite a family advice charity telling you to focus on the relationship when he was like that with your child sounds very off

but definitely push for parenting help but really your children are your priority here

What your husband did was not ok. But it does not help that you’re trying to make him sound unhinged and crazy. The way you described what happened and the micro details you provide is not normal tbh. It seems aside from this issue, you are just not happy with him in general. You clearly do not like your husband. That is a different issue to what he did to your child. Have you tried actually taking any practical steps to make him see that his behaviour is not good for his relationship with his son or the health and happiness of the family? For example: he stops being the chef and you do that as you are calmer and you do part time and he does full time. Or he cooks but your DS eating is your job and he manages the other child only. Also kids can be tricky and they are clever and they can spin things or misuse words. I have a child who use to say ‘so so touched my bum’ she actually meant that person changed her nappy. She had speech delay so used any words nearest to meaning to convey her message. I also have a 5 year old child with SEN that has massive issues with food, routing etc etc. Dad and I have different parenting style which is why some things I do because I am better but most times tolerate the way he leads because in the long run, it really makes no difference. E.g my child loves being fed. During the day, I do not feed him because I think he is capable but just doesn’t want to do it. So he eats himself but not as much if I fed him. Dinner time - he is fed by his dad. I don’t agree but I don’t make a fuss. That’s their bonding moment. Sometimes, I can see my husband getting frustrated because he is tired and wants to eat too despite him choosing to do it this way! So, I bribe my son: ‘Oh DS, I miss you! I am so sad, Mommy wants to feed you too. Can I have a turn? After, mommy will give you a special dessert!’ And he smiles and says ‘ok mommy’. You and your partner have to love each other, respect each other and take over when the other one is down. You should have removed your child before it got to that situation. Or told your partner to take his food elsewhere. Or feed him before you guys ate your dinner etc. If you have a child with ASD - it is ok for things to be the opposite way round. He does not like hot food for dinner? Then give him healthy breakfast items. He must like something your husband cooks? Encourage your DS to say ‘Daddy can you cook your special….I love it’…it is ok to help or teach your husband to foster a loving relationship with his child. Not everybody is a natural or has a manual.

I am not saying what he did is not wrong but it is not something you both cannot come back from if the actual issue is this food problem and what happened with the chair. BUT I think that is just a symptom of the bigger problem: you and your husband. Do think about bringing school and SS into this carefully…9/10 times they do not actually have practical solutions and their advise/resources you can access easily online or through other avenues. At the end of the day ask yourself what you really want? You want to fix your husband? SS and school
cannot do that. You want them to label him
as abusive and kick him out? You can do that too. Why put your vulnerable DS through that process of being questioned etc etc when you can easily do that too? I think you want him to leave and not interested in working things out and using this incident (again he is WRONG) as a red herring. So be brave and ask yourself - is he truly abusive and your son is better off without him? Or this incident is an anomaly and you love him and know that with the right communication and changes it would never happen again? If you come to the first decision - pack his bag and tell him ‘you gonna leave by yourself or should I call the Police/SS/school on you?’.

Yes this was long but I genuinely wanted you to get some perspective because I hope you choose to leave him because you have lost respect for him and the underlying issues in your marriage and won’t use this incident as: I left your dad for you, he was being abusive to you.’ That will damage him too.

They asked "how is the relationship btw the two of you" - i said "not good. we sleep in separate beds and we aren't loving to each other" and she said "well, that may also be contributing to XX's reaching boiling point, rather than just DS behaviour, it may also be that he is stressed about his marriage"

That is pretty much word for word. And I told them exactly what is in OP.

Power and Control Wheel

This. In spades.

While I think the advice given by the charity is questionable, you did the right thing reaching out.

Did you email the school stating exactly what had happened too?

weird advice how do you work on your relationship and whats that got to do with abusing a child