Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! - Thread 2

[CohensDiamondTeeth]

I hope no one minds me starting thread 2, I clicked post on my last reply but the thread had filled up.

There was some interesting discussion had, and on the last page @LostMySocks posted that she was thinking of sending a positive email to HQ, which I think sounds like a great idea. Maybe those who support this move could do the same? It would show Girl Guides that people are paying attention.

Link to the first thread here: Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! | Mumsnet

The first post of the thread was so good I'm just going to copy and paste it here too. Girl Guides statement is incredibly begrudging in tone.

@Iamwhoiamwhoareyou · Yesterday 14:41

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

I think you are right, especially about the second paragraph.

This mother has actively harmed her child and she is in denial about it.

But it doesn't automatically raise levels of safety in every case, does it? Abusers will still come into a single sex spaces with the intent to do harm.

Yes. I think several of us have realised this over the past 24 hours.

There is no actual engagement here. It is just doubling down.

At least the bullying has stopped for now

But that’s easily solved. More cubicles in male spaces. Sorted. Then your son can be happy.

Locking my car doesn't automatically stop someone from breaking into it.

Thieves will just smash the windows any way.

Shall I leave my car unlocked?

Again. You have just again shown you do not understand the principles of safeguarding.

and you don’t even seem to be interested in gaining an understanding in it.

Do you not bother to put a seatbelt on because sometimes the seatbelt does prevent injuries?

Do you not bother locking your doors to your house because peoole who want to get in will come in anyway ?

WTAF!

Safeguarding has never been about preventing all harm! It is about minimising harm and taking steps to maximise protection.

So, because you believe that harm will happen anyway, you think society should just abandon safeguarding?

All because your son has a philosophical belief that in no way reflects material reality, but you demand that society treat him as if his belief IS everyone else’s material reality too?

This is top trolling. One by one those tropish soundbites have been posted on this thread by you.

Apologies, I meant you demanded access, not him. He only followed your lead, poor fella. Hence, he should have been told no, including long before that. You don't strike me as someone who likes to hear No either.

And no, the people who have a problem with your child "design" are the people who don't think your child should function the way he's already designed. I'd say those who feel that way are those who're calling a boy 'a girl'.

Some of your posts on here have been uncalled for as well. I don't think I've said anything inflammatory unlike you.

No it's not the place to start but it IS part of the picture when it comes to transwomen.

I don't think I'm harming my child, thanks. Tho I'm getting a bit sick of the personal attacks on here. Not once have I judged any of your parenting.

La Louvre shouldn’t bother with security, thieves will get in anyway.

There shouldn’t be any laws because they are going to be broken anyway.

I mean, should we go on?

Oh come on. Safeguarding males has nothing to do with safeguarding women and girls.

Sorry but males are not our problem.

They don't care that their presence causes female people to be at increased risk so WHY do you think we should be concerned about them?

Oh, scrap that, I know! MISOGYNY, we must all hail the male people, we should put them first even though it harms us.

You have encouraged your child to believe in a lie for more than half his life, and that lie is going to make the rest of his life very challenging.

You have bullied and personally attacked me on this thread. And not once acknowledged that you have done this.

The hypocrisy is rather blinding with this post.

And you're circular arguing, we've been over this with you already.

Bad men will [do bad thing] anyway so why bother even putting up barriers in the first place?

And again I ask you, why bother to lock your house when you go out? Burglars will burgle you anyway!

I'm sure your bad faith discussion and blatant misogyny on these two threads have been eye opening for many people. So I guess thanks for that?

The world is finally waking up to how female rights and boundaries were being wheeched away from biological females, so your boy and all other men are just going to have to deal with it.

If your story is real and you socially transitioned a 3 year old (or younger given Helle pointed out he was in Brownies not GG), it would be easy to make a very good argument that you have abused your son. It's clear from your posts that you are encouraging him to abuse females, because that's what using girls and female single sex stuff is, an abuse. So slow hand claps for you on that front too.

I am hugely sceptical that this is real, although I do accept that these kinds of people do exist, it was the pre-verbal child bit that really sounded the alarm for me.

You socially transitioned a 3 year old, but by your own admission you basically socially transitioned a baby who couldn't even talk yet. That is utterly shocking, and yes absolutely abuse IMO.

The disconnected thinking is startling.

I don't think I'm harming my child, thanks. Tho I'm getting a bit sick of the personal attacks on here. Not once have I judged any of your parenting.

You say that, yet on this thread you are talking about how your child is affected by this guiding decision and his realisation that he is not (treated as) a girl.

Rather having introspection and realising that (your) lies have caused this harm to him you would rather blame women for not putting your male child first.

You may not think you are harming your child, you think we are because we are all big meanies. You are massively wrong.

A child cannot consent to an absence of a full adult life which includes sex and relationships. Transitioning your child is robbing them of their full adult future. I can't believe parents are arguing for this, it is unconscionable.

Once again, no demanding occured. The group was inclusive of transgirls 48hrs ago and now it's not.

The design point works both ways depending on you viewpoint, yes.

I'm not trying to be inflammatory or uncalled for, sorry for any offence caused. I'm genuinely trying to understand sex-based rights better, where it's justified and where other factors come into play. I will be reflecting on many of the links and recommendations that have been shared on the threads throughout.

My trans child might well have great sex when they're older, thank you very much. What would make her life less "full"? That's extremely condescending.

As I've said, if my child (for example) hits puberty and de-transitions, then of course I will support them. It's honestly not as big a deal as you think it is.

You have missed pages and pages of explanations that you have asked for answers for tonight.

How about before you post after a break, you actually read post that you may have missed instead of asking for answers that people have already used their time and effort to provide you with.

@SolidMam it's not up to you to decide whether single sex spaces are justified or not. If they are single sex spaces they are for female people because female people want / need them.

If you want to stop harming your child explain to him now that he is not and never will be female and has no right to be in those spaces.

Explain to him that IT IS FINE to be a gender non - conforming male. That, short of breaking the law and making unreasonable demands of females to validate his identity, there is no wrong way to be a male.

Start spending your energy advocating for male spaces to be more inclusive of gender non conforming males.

You have a wonderful male child. Please stop harming him by telling him that he is entitled to things that he is not entitled to. Encourage him to embrace his differences as a male.

And please don't encourage any form of physical transition.

This boy has been given a fast track ticket to being a life long medical patient where "treatment" includes as you say sterilisation.

At this point I'd like to remind everyone that @SolidMam thinks her boy is Autistic.

I think it's also very possible that the boy might turn out to be gay.

So a young boy who is likely autistic, possibly gay, being encouraged by his parents down a road that leads to surgery. Surgery which is doing actual bodily harm and has a 100% complication rate, is fraught with constant mental health issues, puts him at odds with the law because his parents are trying to include him in the female sex category as a "girl" and are encouraging him to access female groups and single sex everything, "treatment" also includes reduction of cognitive function and future IQ, and actual sterilisation!

And no thought at all to detransitioning, other than "yeah, yeah identity isn't fixed, whatever!" and in the same breath go "Anyway he is a girl! So be kiiiiiiiind! Give him all your stuff girls! No I don't care that you need it more for valid reasons, I want him to have it instead leaving you with sweet feck all! Now hand it over you bullies!"

🙄& 😡

Yeah... No.

I'm not lying to my child, nor is she lying to me.

She knows she has a penis, that she is a transgirl, that this makes her different to other girls.

I disagree that including her in a group puts her "first".

I don't think you're meanies - and you're not harming my child directly just as I'm not harming yours. I'm debating on Mumsnet.

Thanks again all the amazing posters who kept the fight going !

Yes the tone is ridiculous but thank goodness it's happened.

Imagine a group demanding that society changes to suit an individual’s choices, even changes language, yet it is apparently no big deal if that individual changes his mind?

And apparently, these accommodations are ‘rights’ not ‘additional privileges’. And demanding that society specifically rearranges itself to suit you is apparently reasonable.

I suspect that entitlements is a better word for it all.

"Anyway he is a girl! So be kiiiiiiiind! Give him all your stuff girls! No I don't care that you need it more for valid reasons, I want him to have it instead leaving you with sweet feck all! Now hand it over you bullies!"

Eh? This is pretty out there now.

I've said before that we are some way off medical interventions so, yeah - be kind.