Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! - Thread 2

[CohensDiamondTeeth]

I hope no one minds me starting thread 2, I clicked post on my last reply but the thread had filled up.

There was some interesting discussion had, and on the last page @LostMySocks posted that she was thinking of sending a positive email to HQ, which I think sounds like a great idea. Maybe those who support this move could do the same? It would show Girl Guides that people are paying attention.

Link to the first thread here: Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! | Mumsnet

The first post of the thread was so good I'm just going to copy and paste it here too. Girl Guides statement is incredibly begrudging in tone.

@Iamwhoiamwhoareyou · Yesterday 14:41

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

Dammit, wrong sex matters link above - although the one provided is worth a read, too. Intended one here.

https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/single-sex-services/#publications

Off now.

I cannot believe the number of people piling into the comments sections of various newspaper articles.

There is a complete lack of understanding that girls value a single sex space. So many men and women suggesting that we just become mixed sex.

The funniest thing is that they are suggesting that trans identified girls (aka trans boys) should all rush to sign up as some sort of protest. These girls have always been allowed and welcome to come to Guides. It was even in our old policy.

But again it appears that girls are being the sacrificial lambs. They may not feel comfortable in a club badged 'girl' (although I very much hope that they would) but it's suggested that they should be the ones to protest on behalf of boys.

The problem is chiefly one of public space design. Unfortunately, it seems many people here think the problem is the design of my daughter

Interestingly, I think the opposite is the case. Hence why you and your male child are having this problem with society.

Her social group - and female friends - all went to the local Brownies. There is no option for Scouts where we live anyway.

I also think your child should have heard 'No' a few times if this is any indication of nurtured entitlement. If there isn't anything for boys his age, it doesn't mean he gets to demand access to what's available for only girls.

Then you have failed to understand your safeguarding training and are a danger to women, children and vulnerable adults you are supposed to be safeguarding IMHO

It is essentially a blanket ban on males in what will now become a same sex space. If children like my own pose an inherent danger to the other girls, I would genuinely like to know what the DANGER is. I am yet to be convinced that her presence remains a threat or danger to be mitigated.

Yes it is a blanket ban on males in this space. Thats what single sex spaces mean,

Same. The amount of ‘well all the trans boys will sign up and it’ll be reversed’ comments are wild. They are girls. Along with ‘what risk does 5 year old boys pose anyway’. Girls are allowed spaces to themselves you idiots! I’ve sat on my hands a lot over the past two days. The fact that adults advocate for ‘trans kids’ is horrific in itself.

I've heard of parents who raise their children as 'trans' from a very early age because they (not their children) decided to take the regular "You can be anything you want" approach to child development much further. They tend to sound very similar.

Same! I’m also amazed at all the scout groups taking the opportunity to announce how inclusive they are…when they are mixed sex?!

Dammit, this place is addictive. I'm back already having been reading articles about this and coming across the below. You'll understand why I felt I had to post it here. Enjoy!

Now, TV only from now on this evening! 😅

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/sep/23/majority-of-girls-and-young-women-in-uk-alter-behaviour-to-feel-safe-study-finds

A few quotes, in italics. It includes the age ranges under discussion (just). Note the bits in bold.

Girlguiding survey reveals rising fears of harassment, with many avoiding public transport or changing what they wear

Overall, 68% said they changed their everyday behaviour to avoid being sexually harassed, with one in three (32%) altering what they wear. More than a quarter (28%) of the 2,640 respondents said they had avoided places where they used to socialise and one in 10 (12%) changed where they exercise.

The survey also explored misogyny in schools. More than half of girls aged 11 to 18 (58%) said they had experienced male pupils making toxic comments while 32% reported seeing a teacher or member of staff subjected to sexist or misogynistic abuse.

Amanda Azeez, the acting chief executive of Girlguiding, said: “Although a lot of progress has been made in creating an equal world, reading these stark findings makes us realise that in some areas, like the treatment and behaviour that girls’ face, things sadly haven’t changed at all.

The research also highlighted how girls and young women have supported each other, with 70% of 11- to 21-year-olds saying they have stood up for other girls experiencing sexism or misogyny.

Yes, a blanket ban on all males is what a women's single sex space means. This is not difficult to comprehend.

And the danger of making an exception for your son (or any other male) is that if you let one male in, you have to let all males in. What is the criteria you think we can use to allow some males in and not all? How nice they seem? I've met more than one predator who seemed really nice, including one who's now serving 18 years for sexually abusing children. How they dress, or if they have changed their name? Look up Sarah Jane Baker or Katie Dolatowski to see how good a system that is. Only let them in if they say they really feel like a girl? Strangely, some people don't always tell the truth and will happily say they feel like a girls if it gets them access to girls. Some males are a danger to women and girls. And you can't tell which are and which aren't until it's too late. So all males have to stay out. Again, this is not difficult to comprehend.

Unless of course you think risking males being sad is worse than risking females being harmed. And given your posts on the thread I actually think you do think that. All the girls whose single sex provision has been taken away because your son wanted it don't feature at all for you, other then as validation props. Gender ideology is misogyny on steroids.

Holy moly - she was invited to join an inclusive group after being on a waiting list. She didn't demand anything.

Also, your casual and assuming critique of my parenting is totally uncalled for.

And yes, most folk on here seem to think the opposite is the case, which is why we've been doing so many laps on this topic. But onwards...

As well as safeguarding, there is also the benefits of single sex spaces for girls just to be.
theres a reason all girls schools have better attainment, and less aversion to STEM subjects and doing PE. It’s a nice to have, but it is a very nice to have. Opportunities not being high jacked by the male of the species

I remember reading this. Thank you. I think we should stick it in the stats and polling evidence thread!!

The latest email suggests they are planning to bow to that and "evolve" their offering into mixed sex. Because they are only paying attention to the anti-women mob.

Oh FFS, the spineless panderers!

that will backfire.

It will not have value to trans identifying males if it becomes mixed sex as it will not validate any more.

Really?

That is remarkable. It is not in line with the polling results of the general public. I guess then it means that the silent majority need to start speaking up.

If it could keep girl in the name, it would. But it cannot remain girl guides if they are not single sex. So, yes. I doubt it will be attractive then.

Why do you have to let all males in? That's ludicrous.

There is loads of safeguarding that could be undertaken, official and unofficial. A good start would be actually being respectful to and getting to know transwomen as friends, rather than lumping them into boxes marked "Danger - Male". Obviously I'd add in referring to them in their preferred gender, which I hope you can appreciate is incredibly wearing on this thread.

The girls are not validation props, I find that very disrespectful to my perspective. They are as much validation props for your argument as mine.

And "gender ideology" as you call it is far from misogynistic in my experience. I'm sorry that's not the case for everyone here.

See reality being denied in real time folks!

Banning all males from female single sex spaces does of course automatically raise the levels of safety for the actual biological females, so I can see why that doesn't count for you.

I think this poster's extensive knowledge would be useful if she's about @KeepToiletsSafe

Surely a huge number of girls - and leaders - would leave. And it would open up an opportunity for competition by a new all-girls group (probably set up by JKR!)

I'm sorry - the place to start the safeguarding of girls would be to prioritise the feelings of the males?!

At this point I am going to have to assume you are either trolling, or that you are having to double down on your position because the alternative would be to realise the huge amount of harm you have done to your child by inflicting your own gender stereotypes on them

No it's not ludicrous.

If something is a single sex space, then it has to be a single sex space and exclude all Males, regardless of their gender beliefs.

If it fails to include ALL males then it discriminates against males who do not hold those gender beliefs.

The only options are to be mixed sex and include all Males or to be single sex and exclude all males.

This is because males with gender beliefs are not biological females.

Gender beliefs are inherently misogynistic and reductive. They reduce people to sex stereotypes and fail to recognise the needs of female people.

Can I suggest you go back and read today’s posts again

Why ‘all’ male people would have to be included has been explained at least two or three times already.

“A good start would be actually being respectful to and getting to know transwomen as friends, rather than lumping them into boxes marked "Danger - Male"”

This too has been explained in depth. And that you have again posted something like this shows again your complete lack of understanding safeguarding. I suspect you followed processes in place but never understood the principles of what you were expected to apply.

“The girls are not validation props, I find that very disrespectful to my perspective. They are as much validation props for your argument as mine.”

This is incoherent.

Girls are being used by male people as validation resources regardless of yours or our arguments. This is the outcome of what has been enabled to happen.

This also has been explained in previous posts today from the perspective of what we have been directly told by male adults with transgender identities. Or should we simply ignore what their actions because you don’t believe those male trans people are relevant to your male child?

“And "gender ideology" as you call it is far from misogynistic in my experience”

Any movement that allows male people to define who is and is not female is misogynistic. Your personal experience is irrelevant to the reality of the outcomes of the movement you support.

You can deny it all you want, it doesn’t change the direct and very public evidence that male people have changed the meaning to the language that female people need to describe themselves. You have been actively contributing to this. It cannot be explained in any way other than it being an act of misogyny.