Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! - Thread 2

[CohensDiamondTeeth]

I hope no one minds me starting thread 2, I clicked post on my last reply but the thread had filled up.

There was some interesting discussion had, and on the last page @LostMySocks posted that she was thinking of sending a positive email to HQ, which I think sounds like a great idea. Maybe those who support this move could do the same? It would show Girl Guides that people are paying attention.

Link to the first thread here: Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! | Mumsnet

The first post of the thread was so good I'm just going to copy and paste it here too. Girl Guides statement is incredibly begrudging in tone.

@Iamwhoiamwhoareyou · Yesterday 14:41

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

It is only social transitioning, not medical....so it's fine...

https://youtube.com/shorts/Qly3P6mBfy0?si=Gxn3I-jZK8lZeZPC

She nailed it.

Because thats how the law works
If you open a single sex space to 1 member of the opposite sex you have to let them all in.
Transwomen are a subsect of men/males therefore if you let Transwomen into a formerly female only space you must let all males in otherwise you are illegally discriminating against the males you don't let in.

As for getting to know transwomen you have been repeatedly told we have which is what has helped to shape our opinions. Some of us myself included even used to suffer from body dismorphia (as it was known back in the stoneage) and went through watchful waiting, which is why we know how dangerous gender identity ideology is.

Transwomen are as mentioned already in this post and both threads and as such pose a risk to women. Infact we know that transwomen pose a greater risk than men who id as men, statistics (globally) show us that they're atleast 5 times more likely to be violent sexual predators (see handy easy to read graffiti below stats from ons and moj)) so yes transwomen =males/dangerous.

Noone needs to respect someone else's delusional thinking or beliefs about themselves and as such noone has to pretend to believe it by using the wrong sex pronouns or words for anyone. You can no more expect us to call your son a girl than a Christian cannot expect you to recite the laws prayer or a Muslim can expect you to praise Muhammad.

Transwomen and transgirls do use woman and girls as unconsenting validation props otherwise they would be happy using the men's groups/facilities or mixed sex and would stay out of the women's.
Serious question if your son identified as a boy instead of a girl but still had all the same friends would you have tried to get him in brownies? Or would you have explained that is for girls only and hes a boy and can't join? If you'd explain that boys aren't allowed you are using those girls as a validation prop for your sons gender identity because hes still the same boy regardless of his identity.

We don't need or want validation or any other props to shore up our arguments as we have the facts and statistics to do that unlike your side who have only manipulation, lies and bullying.

Gender ideology is pure distilled misogyny. Only a misogynist can claim that women are nothing more than a thought or feeling in a man's head.

I doubt that you will respond to this but have a good think about my questions around joining brownies if your son identified as a boy and ask yourself why you would behave differently because hes the same male child however he identifies

Moj and ons stats as promised

And the only reason Solid didn’t even consider the girls in her son’s unit, is because anything they said would be because of ‘fear’.

Well, that’s mightily convenient for Solid, i must say.

Her attitude is deplorable.

Yup hysterical- exaggerated emotional behaviour which all sexes succumb to so bore off with the misogyny accusations and shut downs. Having a tiny number of trans children in guides across the country does not stop girls growing , learning or building confidence,quite the reverse. Frankly the nastiness and vitriol from the anti trans brigade do all of that in spades.

And re safeguarding in tents. It’s perfectly possible to accommodate all safely and make adjustments in the same way all kinds of differences and needs are met. It doesn’t have to be black and white as life isn’t black or white and to say otherwise is regressive. Many will walk from guides and I hope they do.

Just so you're aware GirlGuiding has always been open to all girls including those who identify as males (transboys) and non binary. Local units have supported through transition and they have stayed in their units if they feel comfortable there.

We only now exclude boys.

Scouts are mixed sex so legally they have to accept everyone of the correct age. To do otherwise would be discrimination and illegal. This is something they chose many years ago and that is fine. Some girls are happier in a mixed sex environment. Some girls prefer single sex. Girls are allowed this space too.

I find it very disappointing that so many adults, especially adult males, are campaigning for girls not to have access to a single sex space if that is what they want

Again, using the word 'hysterical' shows your misogyny. You show yourself up and prove our point. Or you don't know the history of the word.

Having a tiny number of trans children in guides across the country does not stop girls growing , learning or building confidence,quite the reverse.

Having even one MALE in a female only space does stop girls growing, learning and building confidence.

And re safeguarding in tents. It’s perfectly possible to accommodate all safely and make adjustments in the same way all kinds of differences and needs are met.

Yet GG were sued by a parent for not doing this. And they refused to do anything. If you say a transgirl is a girl, you cannot very well say 'oh but no you're not for the purpose of sleep', can you? A transgirl literally is a girl. That's the point. So how are you going to do that?

How are you going to tell that boy he is a girl 'oh but you have to sleep away from the girls'? How the f are you going to do that? You really have not thought this through at all have you.

Many girls left GG when they put males in with females. Perhaps now those females will return, and the nasty misogynist bigots can go to Scouts or some other misogynist backwater of a group. Scouts is mixed sex. All women and girls one is one thing for ourselves. JUST....ONE.

How do you know it's a tiny number?

What happens when it stops being a tiny number? Is there a point where you decide it's a problem? What do you do then?

Why don't you think girls should have things for themselves if that's what they want? Why do you think they should always just roll over and accommodate boys who want their stuff?

There is unisex provision in scouts for anyone, male or female, who wants that. No one is missing out here.

"without her living a lie"

But he is living a lie. He's not a girl. He's a male child that is confused or disliking the body he was born with so behaves in a way that he thinks is female and all the actual female girls around him have to go along with the lie. They are also children. Why is it ok to lie to them to make him feel better. Those girls are not props for his fantasy.

He will one day realise that he cannot actually change his sex and grow into a adult female, that is impossible. Poor child will realise then the lie he has been sold, and lives.

The only a few is dismissive of the reality though. That 'only a few' means that GG went from being a female single sex group to being mixed sex. There is no 'but it is only a few' defence on this.

It is like you cannot have only a fewnuts in a product that has the label 'nut free'. You cannot have one male child member in a female single sex group. The SC judgement is very clear on this.

Of course, only a few can cause harm to many. In female sports for instance, it has been calculated that 2 male athletes in Maine negatively impacted over 1,600 girls.

It has never been measured, and cannot be measured now, what negative impact 1 male child accessing a GG group has. You have assumed it is zero. This will be incorrect based on past history of girls stories of what GG means to them.

That doesn't even include displacement of female children. Just in my area alone, each GG group has a waiting list of girls waiting to join. 1 male child being accepted into a group directly negatively impacts 1 female child who didn't get accepted.

The law is clear, it actually was from 2010.

Safeguarding involves a whole lot more than sleeping arrangements.

For any safeguarding to be effective, consent has to be gained with full knowledge of the situation in the first place. Children cannot consent. Their parents have to consent on their behalf.

If parents do not have full knowledge that a male child is in the group, they cannot give consent. Their consent has been negated by that lack of disclosure.

Consent is 'black and white', or do you think that consent can be a shade of grey? How does that work? And what the fuck are we teaching our children about consent if there are shades of grey!

Consent is 'black and white' which means that safeguarding requiring consent is also 'black and white'.

"My son is also autistic and loves lots of traditionally female clothes and interests. More than I ever did. But that doesn't make him a girl. We need to throw away all these stereotypes and let kids be kids. Ironically the push for trans and non binary acceptance seems to narrow what is accepted for both sexes."

Thank goodness your son has a mum like you, rather than one captured by the trans ideology. At least you can guide him through these ridiculous stereotypes, and the belief that if you don't fit them, you must be the wrong sex. Common sense parenting, love based and no need to assume he must have the wrong body.

So much harm done by trans ideology. I feel in the future a huge investigation will be needed into harm done to children by pushing or going along with the lies. Catastrophic damage to so many children by adults who should protect them.

Safety is but one aspect of the safeguarding needs for female people.

There are numerous harms.

Harms include:

-Rape and sexual assault.

-Violence.

-Sexual abuse that is not rape or sexual assault.

-Sexual abuse that also includes solo sexual acts or using the experience in future sexual acts.

-Any other abuse that may include verbal abuse, intimidation in any way etc, this includes inappropriate questions and comments.

-A male person's presence where female people need privacy and dignity.

-A male person's presence where female people need to feel safe from any male person's presence (over the age of about 8 years old).

-Female people self-excluding knowing that there may be a male person accessing that provision.

-Female people not having the freedom to discuss the issues that cause them distress, concern, or that they need to talk about because a male person is present.

-Female children (and female adults) learning to have no or too low personal boundaries because they have been taught that male people are female people and that they should ignore and overcome feelings of discomfort.

Narrowing the discussion to sex and violence offences does not remove these other harms from consideration for single sex spaces.

Therefore when female people are talking about why they need single sex spaces, they are generally referring to a wide range of 'harms' that is not limited to physical / sexual assault. Those other harms are not reportable and are very rarely studied. That does not mean though that they are not significant and can be dismissed as you have attempted to do.

"He's a male child that is confused or disliking the body he was born with"

Solid also said that her boy is perfectly happy in his body.

He knows he is male, and is comfortable with his male body.

So again I'm left with the belief that this is all to do with gender stereotypes foisted on him by his parents.

Edited to add BEFORE HE COULD EVEN TALK!!

I would really love to know how you say to a boy you agree that he's a girl, involve him in girl spaces, in girl activities, and treat them 100% like they are girl, to just turn around and say, 'actually no, you're not a girl so you can't sleep with the girls'. I mean, can anyone on the trans activist side explain to me the logistics of how they'd do that? How would you go about that in reality? Without breaking the heart of the boy and shattering his spirit, and making all the other girls aware that he is sleeping on his own and not with them? This is where Trans Ideology falls flat. It's a house of cards built on quicksand. Either a transgirl is a girl in every way, shape and form, or he's not. One or the other.

Any 'trans girls are girls' posters willing to actually have the guts to answer that? I'm really interested in exactly how they would handle it. Since it's apparently so easy to do.

The whole ethos of GG is to empower girls.
Not to teach them that all girls should accept boys that believe there’s no difference between them apart from that extra little dangle thing between their legs? 🤪

If I, as a parent of 2 x 5yo’s and 1 almost 4yo were to tell them they were all girls I’m sure they’d believe me because they trust me to be truthful, to help them understand the world they’re growing up in. If they asked me if Santa was real, I’d not lie. It’s make-believe but harmless. Telling them that they were real Princesses/Princes is not pretend play despite dressing up in sparkly dresses and little crowns, it’s still make-believe.

I will be honest and truthful so they grow up without being confused about the differences between being male and female.

It’s just occurred to me that the rabid TRA’s aren’t just demanding drugs and surgery to convert young people, but it’s to mentally convince them as toddlers and so it’s their parents that are wholly to blame. 😠

Wait. If her son is happy in his male body, then he doesn't have Gender Dysphoria and is not trans. So @SolidMam is lying about her son being trans then.

Unfortunately there are lots of women who bring their daughters up to put themselves second to what men want.

I would really love to know how you say to a boy you agree that he's a girl, involve him in girl spaces, in girl activities, and treat them 100% like they are girl, to just turn around and say, 'actually no, you're not a girl so you can't sleep with the girls'. I mean, can anyone on the trans activist side explain to me the logistics of how they'd do that?

Exactly

This seems much, much crueller than just sticking to the truth right from the start.

Indeed.

Interesting post, and points I never knew or considered before.

An important reason scouts accepted girls into their numbers was because their numbers were dwindling, so they did it to boost numbers. Nothing to do with inclusivity at all.

Also, plenty of pushy “parents of trans” want
their “trans girl” sons to sleep in a girl tent, and if the virtue signaling “TWAW but female spaces are sometimes necessary though, I’m sensible” brigade insist their daughters must not be with these male children for sleeping/changing etc, they and their daughters will be written off as exactly the sort of awful heinous “TERFs” you think we are, @HC1ps- sorry and all. There is precious little nuance in TRAworld.

She called a young girl 'transphobic' for not wanting boys playing with the girls.

Well according to her, her son "indicated that he identified with a female character" she pointed at before he was able to talk - so under 1 year old.

Then there was social transition at about 3 and a half (or younger depending on his age now).

She also mentioned that her son was likely autistic.

I'm sure her son does think he's trans... now! But he also recognises and is comfortable with his male body, so no not dysphoric.

I'm also as sure as I can be that being trans was an idea that was pushed on him by his parents from before he was 1.

It's really shocking tbh.