To think there is a definite surge in annoyance towards the disabled?

[WarySwan]

I have seen it in real life. Not just social media forums and news outlets where every other post seems to be about 'free money this for disabled' and 'free cars'.

My 2 children have autism. They get highest rate DLA. About £800 a month. We get respite care funded that costs the tax payer about £700 a month.

Just had an extension on our new build house, housing association, brand new bedroom and ensuite installed. Free of charge through the council.

Motability 7 seater car. 25 plate.

People seem to just see this and see the money. They do not see the costs that are present because of disability. The amount of time and resources it takes to keep 2 profoundly children at home.

They do not see that my children will need 24/7 care for life. 2-1 support in public. The constant cleaning and caring. Waking up at the crack of dawn, years on end. Cleaning smearing and endless washing. Endless marks on your body from a child who doesn't get that taking a chunk out of you will hurt that much and scar

Watching your eldest almost die as he can't speak a word or use a communication device. Meaning appendicitis went undetected until he was almost dying. The constant battle of keeping a cannula in his arm with hospital staff just not getting why a play therapist does not bloody cut it and he needs constant supervision that I cannot possibly do 24/7 without moving from the bedside. The weeks spend in recovery because of this.

If we do not or cannot provide this care, residential placements are about £40,000+ per month. Yes. Per month. It is eye watering in cost. That won't change anytime soon because social care is beyond shot to bits.

My children deserve the best life possible. And a dignified society should surely want to ensure this happens? Children who are not disabled and their parents have options. They have chances and doorways. Mine will never work. Never have a marriage or children, they won't even be able to cook a basic meal.

There is no overtime or upskilling for me. No situation where they fly the nest and I can focus on my career again. Unless they become some dangerous through no fault of their own that a 40k plus a month placement goes ahead as the alternative means I could die or be seriously injured, and that would mean they'd be at risk if I am literally unconscious on the floor.

They still deserve dignity and compassion. The chance of a good life. They are very happy currently. Good routines that are followed to a T. Safe at home because I have the resources to do it.

Care placement does not save money. Unfortunately. It would cost over ten times what I get in benefits.

I have seen so many mentions of people saying those on benefits should have no savings at all. Nothing. Really? You think my life isn't hard enough? You think I shouldn't be allowed a small nest of savings too?

When I finally drop down from caring, I will have next to no pension. After spending a lifetime ensuring the state doesn't have to take full responsibility for 2 adult men that will mean at least 4 paid members of staff are present at all times.

I am not just talking about MN. It is everywhere. Even 'funny' reels on Instagram targeted about how the disabled get this and that. How they should all drive a basic tiny car that has something written in bold to make sure everyone knows its a free car, as if they're really disabled, they'll use. That'll stop the chancers eh!

This is NOT about criticism towards PIP and DLA for things people deem questionable... even though they almost certainly dont have all the facts. This is about the blatant and not hidden disgust and begrudge of help to those with lifelong and profound disability

PEOPLE keep saying in black and white, no room for confusion in their words, that the disabled get too much. That it isn't fair.

I suppose this thread will get deleted. But a lot of views seem to be going unchallenged about the disabled that wouldn't be allowed if it was about something else that's suppose to be a protected characteristic. Seems to have quite a few comparisons with a certain country in Europe 80 or so years ago. When the hatred and deceit was being thrown around and brain washing people before not many years later, the public became okay with euthanasia of them.

Hell, I am sure we are already there for some. As I have seen with my own eyes, people commenting on MN and the likes of social media where their bloody name and pictures of themselves and their work can be traced, that euthanasia could be an option, ideally.

Same.
And further that many of us being squeezed by taxes till we can't take any more are in fact disabled or unwell or have other struggles and therefore there is a huge responsibility for the government to not ask us to fund others more than strictly necessary.

I agree and also I think the danger of burning out let’s say young families via the tax system does mean that they are unlikely to be able to work productively until 67, it just delays chronic health issues for them. It is unrealistic to expect some people to work full time 21-67 and go all out and subsidises everyone else without that having real health implications on that group, especially if they are doing physically demanding jobs. High stress does lead to chronic health issues in time. And I think that is where we are at now. There are so many 50 somethings with chronic health issues now.

The tax payers pay for some but if you think they pay all it's too funny.
I'll come back with evidence shortly 😉

Also, when have you ever seen the government cut something from somewhere else and improve your life?
All they do is cut cut cut

Exactly!
And huge financial strain is also more likely to lead to parents separating /unhealthy eating etc.

There has to be balance in the system and when I look around at school pick up or on social media and realise who is affording day trips and beauty treatments and nights out and who isn't, it tells me something is very out of balance.

I also work with people who do have ADHD and or ASD and they work themselves into the ground and into burnout and society and the system does exploit them too, via taxation and via long hours. There were times 20 years ago when it was not unheard of that pregnant women with ADHD would still do all nighters at their desks. Completely unacceptable. It is a good thing that the younger generation are pushing back on this culture of working too long hours, huge stress and big pay - it does have long term real costs to those humans too.

Yes, this. I have ADHD and if affects me in my home life and work, yet I work FT because that's just what you do. I see people with ADHD who don't work, and get LWCRA for it. Now I KNOW it affects us all differently - but are you telling me that they cannot do ANY sort of work, even PT? None at all?

I do, but what does it matter in this context.

You're the one diving into semantics and asserting that all comments should be logical arguments.

I was talking about ethics/philosophy in the context of why people are apparently becoming less supportive for disabled people and their carers. And posing the question of at what point the social support model breaks. Which necessitates the questions of why we support unproductive things - some people have taken this (wrongly) as a covert agenda that we should not support them and that I'm advocating for forced euthanasia.

None of this is remotely logical in the formal sense, but there are definitely illogical positions that we hold. And we contort ourselves mentally to try and make them consistent with beliefs we think are inviolate.

We say that killing is wrong but we do it to animals. So we redefine it as killing humans is wrong, but then we allow conscription and abortion. To do that we have to redefine a child in the womb as not human (yet) or invoke the utility argument of the woman's life is more precious than the unborn child.

But we also send people off to die in wars whether they want to or not - the conscientious exemption is not "i don't want to die" but "i don't want to kill".
We do that on an argument of utility whereby the sacrifice (of the few) is made for the greater good.

We accept all that but why? And if we accept the utility argument of the greater good why do we refute it in other situations?

And if we accept that, then why is there a prescription about killing in other settings? Where is the utility argument that says (of me) "i am old and ill, I will not improve, I cannot resource my own care. I should die now".
Why do we insist that i must live and others should be coerced into caring for me?

None of that is remotely formal logic.

But I wanted to understand how others rationalise.what I think are completely illogical/incoherent/inconsistent positions.

So, I'll skip your meta-conversation. I'm not remotely interested in how you think posts should be structured unless you can use that to explain how what seem like inconsistent views actually unify.

Ive never claimed universal credit so i might be wrong, but i got the impression it was a bit all or nothing when it came to the idea of someone with a disability working part time. I think the system decides you either cant work or can work. I have seen disabled people complain about this aspect. Apparently which ever benefit existed before UC was a bit better for this.

Unfortunately, WW2 has passed out of living memory and people are starting to forget. Not sure how as we all get taught WW2 at school and the whole point that we should never forget so history never repeats itself. I also wonder how many of them are bots? There was weird post about Tommy Robinson and Christianity, which seemed to be pushing the American style evangelical line, and there have been a lot of other weird and goady threads and posts on here recently.

Well as You said it affects people in different ways and they may have other comorbid conditions
My son doesn't have ADHD but has a diagnosis of autism he won't ever be able to work due to having severe mental impairment
But Autism like ADHD is a spectrum disorder and whilst many will be able to work some won't.

I think for ADHD it can also be the trauma that it causes during the education process that can make people unproductive long term, choose drugs/stimulants etc rather than exercise/sleep.
1 DC growing up in a supportive wealthy household with ADHD and learning to self manage and being self aware is completely different than another DC growing up in a chaotic home to a single parent addict and going to a crap school where they are told from the get go they are a failure.

The two women I work with who have ADHD are very focussed and highly energetic at times, probably need to regularly be told to pace themselves and do less! So it really does vary. I have another very close friend who has ADHD and is bipolar too, she is one of the most brilliant people I know, has had a great career but also stints in psych wards which she can luckily afford privately.

You can still work when getting LCWRA - as long as it doesn't contradict the reason you claim it.

Even those of us who CAN work with ASD, ADHD or mental health issues - it is seriously fucking hard and most of us push past the point of burnout and wreck ourselves trying to be held to the same standards as our peers (and look on MN how we'd be hung drawn and quartered if we asked for reasonable adjustments).

I'm currently on the edge of burnout and trying to combine my remaining dregs of annual leave, sleeping when I'm not working (a great existence) and just sheer gritted teeth to get through things - I don't ask for an easy ride and I expect to pull my weight - but it does take a much larger cognitive load for me to function through social situations and things that a neurotypical mind would cope with without having to think about it at all. And I'm incredibly lucky to be in a post where I can use my strangely wired brain as a strength too.

In reality I should be on the sick, or working part time but that's not really an option for me and so I slog on. I'm not expecting those who've had an empathy bypass to "get" just how hard work it can be to have one of these neurodevelopmental invisible conditions, not expecting them to care even if they did (because it doesn't fit their world view and idea of "undeserving" and "deserving" poor - how Victorian) but it is fucking hard work to keep going and I'm very lucky I'm in a position to be able to do so.

If you're disabled under the old system you were able to work 16 hours a week and claim the disability part of working tax credits

One thing I have discovered though, through being open about my health condition at work, is that most people are fighting some sort of battle. Whether it's chronic health conditions or living with DV or bereavement or dyslexia or mental health conditions.

I think we need to get rid of the myth that most people are breezing through working life.

Most people are battling on several fronts and that's why we cannot be squeezed dry by taxation while others get funded by benefits

There has to be balance and the benefits system has to recognise that it is funded by people who also have plenty of struggles. It can't and shouldnt fund lifestyles

What do you mean by lifestyles?

There seems to be this idea that benefit claimants, some of whom are unable to contribute in taxation, don’t deserve nice things because they don’t pay in.

We both work, and our son does qualify for DLA. He’s going to meet Santa for the first time on Sunday - if we’d paid for that out of benefit rather than our salaries, would he be allowed to go? Does that answer change if we were non-working because of his needs, which is very common?

I just think it’s callous to deny disabled people life experiences beyond the “basics” on the basis that they’re often state funded. Life is difficult enough without forcing them into a life of nothing.

Exactly this. I think it's quite clear that many of us are being squeezed to the point of breaking in terms of taxation. Those of us without 25-plate 7-seaters. I wonder at the motivation of the OP in starting this discussion only a few days after the latest budget.

I don't understand this ethos. People are struggling so let's not offer support?

There's a difference between going through a difficult time and having a developmental disability like autism or ADHD. Both are worthy of support of different types. Pitting people against each other, blaming disabled people for other people's difficulties, that's never going to work and allows our elected representatives to remove practical and financial help because they can argue that providing it is unpopular.

Do you want a motability car or do you not want anyone else to have one? I'm interested to understand where the obsession with what other people have stems from. Not just you, it's become a bit of a national obsession since people like Elon Musk flooded social media with complaints about the Motability scheme.

My heart goes out for you. Nobody should ever have to feel that way, it's disgraceful.

People want to feel the hours and sacrifices they make working brings some benefit to themselves.

Don't we all?
That wasn't my question though.

The benefit of not being disabled shouldn't be taken for granted. Too much of current attitudes towards disabled people is about envy and kicking down. It's disgraceful.

Seeing someone getting things on benefits that they can’t afford themselves despite working all hours feels like there is no benefit in working. So it is not the car per se, it is they feel they should be able to afford more than someone who doesn’t work. Motability cars are just an obvious symbol of what they can’t afford.

"Exactly this. I think it's quite clear that many of us are being squeezed to the point of breaking in terms of taxation. Those of us without 25-plate 7-seaters. I wonder at the motivation of the OP in starting this discussion only a few days after the latest budget."

My adult son leases a 24 plate 7 seater through the motability scheme. I would love for him to not need it and not have the profound disability that he has.