To think there is a definite surge in annoyance towards the disabled?

[WarySwan]

I have seen it in real life. Not just social media forums and news outlets where every other post seems to be about 'free money this for disabled' and 'free cars'.

My 2 children have autism. They get highest rate DLA. About £800 a month. We get respite care funded that costs the tax payer about £700 a month.

Just had an extension on our new build house, housing association, brand new bedroom and ensuite installed. Free of charge through the council.

Motability 7 seater car. 25 plate.

People seem to just see this and see the money. They do not see the costs that are present because of disability. The amount of time and resources it takes to keep 2 profoundly children at home.

They do not see that my children will need 24/7 care for life. 2-1 support in public. The constant cleaning and caring. Waking up at the crack of dawn, years on end. Cleaning smearing and endless washing. Endless marks on your body from a child who doesn't get that taking a chunk out of you will hurt that much and scar

Watching your eldest almost die as he can't speak a word or use a communication device. Meaning appendicitis went undetected until he was almost dying. The constant battle of keeping a cannula in his arm with hospital staff just not getting why a play therapist does not bloody cut it and he needs constant supervision that I cannot possibly do 24/7 without moving from the bedside. The weeks spend in recovery because of this.

If we do not or cannot provide this care, residential placements are about £40,000+ per month. Yes. Per month. It is eye watering in cost. That won't change anytime soon because social care is beyond shot to bits.

My children deserve the best life possible. And a dignified society should surely want to ensure this happens? Children who are not disabled and their parents have options. They have chances and doorways. Mine will never work. Never have a marriage or children, they won't even be able to cook a basic meal.

There is no overtime or upskilling for me. No situation where they fly the nest and I can focus on my career again. Unless they become some dangerous through no fault of their own that a 40k plus a month placement goes ahead as the alternative means I could die or be seriously injured, and that would mean they'd be at risk if I am literally unconscious on the floor.

They still deserve dignity and compassion. The chance of a good life. They are very happy currently. Good routines that are followed to a T. Safe at home because I have the resources to do it.

Care placement does not save money. Unfortunately. It would cost over ten times what I get in benefits.

I have seen so many mentions of people saying those on benefits should have no savings at all. Nothing. Really? You think my life isn't hard enough? You think I shouldn't be allowed a small nest of savings too?

When I finally drop down from caring, I will have next to no pension. After spending a lifetime ensuring the state doesn't have to take full responsibility for 2 adult men that will mean at least 4 paid members of staff are present at all times.

I am not just talking about MN. It is everywhere. Even 'funny' reels on Instagram targeted about how the disabled get this and that. How they should all drive a basic tiny car that has something written in bold to make sure everyone knows its a free car, as if they're really disabled, they'll use. That'll stop the chancers eh!

This is NOT about criticism towards PIP and DLA for things people deem questionable... even though they almost certainly dont have all the facts. This is about the blatant and not hidden disgust and begrudge of help to those with lifelong and profound disability

PEOPLE keep saying in black and white, no room for confusion in their words, that the disabled get too much. That it isn't fair.

I suppose this thread will get deleted. But a lot of views seem to be going unchallenged about the disabled that wouldn't be allowed if it was about something else that's suppose to be a protected characteristic. Seems to have quite a few comparisons with a certain country in Europe 80 or so years ago. When the hatred and deceit was being thrown around and brain washing people before not many years later, the public became okay with euthanasia of them.

Hell, I am sure we are already there for some. As I have seen with my own eyes, people commenting on MN and the likes of social media where their bloody name and pictures of themselves and their work can be traced, that euthanasia could be an option, ideally.

The sad thing is that I knew it's exactly how the thread would go.

What a shame.

My brother is brain damaged due to being runover by a car aged 10. He receives lower rate PIP for mobility and no UC due to an inheritance. I think he was fucked over in the initial assessments, but due to his brain injury he won't accept help and arranged and attended the assessment on his own. I doubt he understood the criteria or the subtext of the questions.

I think that genuinely disabled people are getting fucked over by the system and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of savvy pisstakers are rinsing it out as a lifestyle choice.

I also think that all the people advocating for unquestioned PIP payments, whilst denying that any fraud exists in the system, are actually causing problems for people like the OP because it is leading to massive resentment from taxpayers - especially when they personally know people that are taking the piss.

You do not know if someone is taking the piss. Are you their GP or DWP?

Exactly.

I don't for a second doubt that some people commit fraud but from the outside looking in, it can be an easy thing to assume. Especially with invisible disabilities.

I posted that way up thread

So, as per my previous post, I think you are part of the problem and are actively making things worse for the OP.

I'd be happy to talk but your post really makes no sense to me.

You seem to be trying to assert that the discussion is based on provable logic, and that therefore rules of logic must apply. I have seen none here doing that, unless you include PPs who have asserted the premises:
A. OP came here for support,
B. Posts which are not supportive are hurtful
And therefore the logical conclusion is that posts must be deleted.

Incidentally, I would dispute.both premises.

I can't vouch for others but the conversation I was trying to have is why people.hold the views they do.

With a few notable exceptions, the responses have been high on emotion/empathy and low on utility/practicality. What I'd paraphrase as "i believe this because its right".

Thats not a logical argument, .

Ironic that you name an individual killed for his political beliefs, I am sure some people probably thought my earlier post about how ascribing value to life could lead to that as fanciful.

OP didnt and there is always some idiot somewhere saying something stupid - I couldn’t read the deleted comments.

Yes I am just some disabled person making things worse.

Same. Except my son is disabled.

@CanSeeClearlyNowTheRainHasGone
Define a logical argument and then present one.
Please. Humour me. Pick any topic.
If the ground is wet, has it rained?
If someone says something personal, is it logical?
If someone says something personal, is it emotional?
Can you distinguish between a premiss and a conclusion?
A premiss might be “If A describes B from a personal viewpoint then C”.
If one asserts that premiss is fallacious, then, using logic, they can prove it to be fallacious or true ( logically).
So, show us. Show us what is fallacious in the statements made by the OP or anyone else speaking personally. Please use logic.

@Legobricksinatub
Not everything is about you.
Charie Kirk was killed for his beliefs? Evidence for that is..,?

Well you first have to understand that the government does things deliberately.
So it doesn't mean if they reduce the money given to the disabled that they will now have more money for you.
They won't. Because they've already decided how much you need, which is just enough to survive.
They have a pot for this amd a pot for that. And it's never shared.
For example with pension credit, millions don't claim it every year, they don't even they would be entitled.
So where does that saved money go?

The government has a pot for asylum much of it paid for by the world, not the UK in fact, it's asylum agreements across the world.
So, if they stopped any new asylum seekers, there wouldn't be much saved at all.
And on and on.

But yeah, point is, others getting less will not ever equate you getting more.

And some people like the disabled will be disproportionately affected.

My cousin can't cook for herself. She has a terminal disease and she is very weak.
She has to have a food delivery service daily.
Someone has to take her kids to school, and she gets a cleaner twice a week.
So if she didn't get pip and a carer, what exactly would she have done?
Die sooner I suppose and kids go in the care of relatives.
Now her and her kids are together, her house is clean and she eats daily. I don't know who would begrudge her that.

I mean we can at least get out of the house when we are miserable and go for some fresh air.
She can't.

Ahh yes, I think I read about this on a video before. Something about the first sign of civilisation was someone having had a really bad leg break that was proven to be healed, which meant they were cared for ❤

I am disabled. Not quite "enough" to get benefits. Or rather my condition is rare and poorly understood

I would just like enough of my own money to be able to take care of myself and my family. A combination of tax squeezes and below inflation pay rises (public sector) and cost of living increases mean I can no longer afford the cleaner. But I can't clean the house myself without getting ill. And I am worried about running my car and paying for petrol but I can't manage without it due to my disability

This isn't some world where all disabled people get help. Some of us just want enough of our own money left to be able to look after ourselves.

Getting signed off by the GP isn't enough to prove mental health issues severe enough to be eligible for PIP
They would want to see evidence from mental health professionals who despite what some posters seem to think are not thick and are trained to carry out mental health assessments.

I tried to engage with you in good faith but your reply makes no more sense than your opener.

You wish to apply formal logic to PPs statements for some reason. For the life of me i don't know why.

@CanSeeClearlyNowTheRainHasGone
Perhaps because you don’t actually know the difference between a logical argument and a statement from reason?

Most people do not.

You think he was randomly shot in front of a crowd of people?!?!

Even if it were a random attack, which it clearly wasn’t, an awful lot of people tried to justify it on the basis of his beliefs, including the then president-elect of the Oxford Union.

They made the anti-eugenics argument. That some people would euthanise the disabled is appalling. A person's life is not measured in what they put in or what others have to do for them. Sometimes what others have to do for them is what makes other lives worth living and lives of great wonder.
I have a nephew who has a hereditary illness. His DW receives UC for herself and 3 DC, and he is institutionalised. His DC (and my other DN/N and their children) can all inherit this devastating illness. Shall we euthanase all of them, just in case?
If the law dictates - or allows/encourages this - the law is bad and the society it resides in has no compassion and may be unworthy of civilised status.

Jews were targetted by the National Socialist movement from the beginning as the 'other' who were causing problems in Germany. There are not layers of suffering. The disabled, the mentally unfit, Jewish people, Roma people, communists and other 'deficient' human beings all went to the gas chambers (once they were up and running - otherwise just shot in front of the graves they had dug and into which their bodies fell). 6 million Jews is the highest number of those slaughtered, followed by 2 million Roma. Never forget.

It is difficult to take this post seriously as it shows such a basic misunderstanding. ‘The world’ does not pay for asylum seekers! UK tax payers do! There is a finite supply of money that is able to be put in each pot so if demand for disability benefits go up either money has to be taken from somewhere else to be put in that pot (health? other welfare? more taxes risking impacts on the economy and impacts on those tax-payers? Nurses wage increase?) or the amount of money paid out to claimants has to reduce. Given how much strain other ‘pots’ are under, and how heavy the tax bill now is, cutting payouts becomes a definite possibility.

I am not saying I need MORE handouts (not that I get any, apart from child benefit). I am saying that I cannot GIVE more, from my own pocket, without it being a detriment to me. Yet somehow, they want to tax me more