To think there is a definite surge in annoyance towards the disabled?

[WarySwan]

I have seen it in real life. Not just social media forums and news outlets where every other post seems to be about 'free money this for disabled' and 'free cars'.

My 2 children have autism. They get highest rate DLA. About £800 a month. We get respite care funded that costs the tax payer about £700 a month.

Just had an extension on our new build house, housing association, brand new bedroom and ensuite installed. Free of charge through the council.

Motability 7 seater car. 25 plate.

People seem to just see this and see the money. They do not see the costs that are present because of disability. The amount of time and resources it takes to keep 2 profoundly children at home.

They do not see that my children will need 24/7 care for life. 2-1 support in public. The constant cleaning and caring. Waking up at the crack of dawn, years on end. Cleaning smearing and endless washing. Endless marks on your body from a child who doesn't get that taking a chunk out of you will hurt that much and scar

Watching your eldest almost die as he can't speak a word or use a communication device. Meaning appendicitis went undetected until he was almost dying. The constant battle of keeping a cannula in his arm with hospital staff just not getting why a play therapist does not bloody cut it and he needs constant supervision that I cannot possibly do 24/7 without moving from the bedside. The weeks spend in recovery because of this.

If we do not or cannot provide this care, residential placements are about £40,000+ per month. Yes. Per month. It is eye watering in cost. That won't change anytime soon because social care is beyond shot to bits.

My children deserve the best life possible. And a dignified society should surely want to ensure this happens? Children who are not disabled and their parents have options. They have chances and doorways. Mine will never work. Never have a marriage or children, they won't even be able to cook a basic meal.

There is no overtime or upskilling for me. No situation where they fly the nest and I can focus on my career again. Unless they become some dangerous through no fault of their own that a 40k plus a month placement goes ahead as the alternative means I could die or be seriously injured, and that would mean they'd be at risk if I am literally unconscious on the floor.

They still deserve dignity and compassion. The chance of a good life. They are very happy currently. Good routines that are followed to a T. Safe at home because I have the resources to do it.

Care placement does not save money. Unfortunately. It would cost over ten times what I get in benefits.

I have seen so many mentions of people saying those on benefits should have no savings at all. Nothing. Really? You think my life isn't hard enough? You think I shouldn't be allowed a small nest of savings too?

When I finally drop down from caring, I will have next to no pension. After spending a lifetime ensuring the state doesn't have to take full responsibility for 2 adult men that will mean at least 4 paid members of staff are present at all times.

I am not just talking about MN. It is everywhere. Even 'funny' reels on Instagram targeted about how the disabled get this and that. How they should all drive a basic tiny car that has something written in bold to make sure everyone knows its a free car, as if they're really disabled, they'll use. That'll stop the chancers eh!

This is NOT about criticism towards PIP and DLA for things people deem questionable... even though they almost certainly dont have all the facts. This is about the blatant and not hidden disgust and begrudge of help to those with lifelong and profound disability

PEOPLE keep saying in black and white, no room for confusion in their words, that the disabled get too much. That it isn't fair.

I suppose this thread will get deleted. But a lot of views seem to be going unchallenged about the disabled that wouldn't be allowed if it was about something else that's suppose to be a protected characteristic. Seems to have quite a few comparisons with a certain country in Europe 80 or so years ago. When the hatred and deceit was being thrown around and brain washing people before not many years later, the public became okay with euthanasia of them.

Hell, I am sure we are already there for some. As I have seen with my own eyes, people commenting on MN and the likes of social media where their bloody name and pictures of themselves and their work can be traced, that euthanasia could be an option, ideally.

@SleeplessInWherever where would you put the line? Would you allow a late term abortion of a child with severe disabilities and a condition incompatible with life who may only live a few hours or days or would you say that life is sacred and that the mother should deliver the child and all efforts be made to keep the child alive?

Ok.

Imagine for example that you see statistics for how many people have been convicted of stealing.

Imagine also that there is actually a huge number of people who are stealing but not getting caught by the law, because in some way they are protected from being found out.

The stats on stealing would be quite misleading.

Fraud is particularly tricky this way, because if it is successful, it is never found out. For example, years ago, there was a real issue with people claiming beneits related to back injuries. These people were generally never found to be actually fraudulent in obtaining their diagnosis. Nevertheless, we don't have that happening any more, the system adjusted to prevent it. But it went on for something like 10 years.

That is the kind of thing people think are happening.

That poster said”The intolerance is towards the people, often young, who are too anxious to work. It is a significant proportion of 18-25 yr olds and it is simply not sustainable financially”

It’s 15% out of work and education actually.

You don’t get PIP just for anxiety and not working. You need a shed load of evidence to get PIP and need to be receiving treatment from services re MH. Considering many people who make attempts on their life don’t get support or taken on by services it’s a pretty hard to hoop to get through.

PIP helps people to work and study. My daughter being one of them .

Obviously your children are disabled and need the highest level of care.

But the system needs to be overhauled. I read the other day folk were getting a mobility car for tennis elbow. I mean honestly. That's the kind of thing that makes folk angry.

I think the key is “incompatible with life.”

The children who are alive, aren’t “incompatible.”

So that’s a different line we’d be drawing.

Im disabled and have to pay for treatment and therapy because its not funded on the nhs. This is £300 a month approx. I dont claim pip and i dont think i would qualify.

It stings because a lot of the same people who are disparaging of the disabled will never criticise anyone happily taking maternity pay, child tax breaks, nursery hours, state pension, hospital treatment etc.

Okay, it’s fair to say “trans women are women” is a left-leaning soundbite (which gets on my tits as I’m left-leaning and GC) but it’s not one that’s being parroted by people all over mumsnet.

All crime statistics have this problem. Which is why convictions and crime surveys are the two methods used by the ONS to count crimes. I’m not sure why you are pointing out the obvious. Do you think benefit fraud is some special case? Everyone knows some criminals get away with their crimes but we never speculate on how many of them there are based on anecdotes of curtain twitching.

So am I to infer that you would choose the late term abortion?

On that basis there would be little by way of medical advances or treatment. Most treatments start off with marginal benefits then develop and can lead to great quality of life for a long time. Prem babies that rarely survived forty years ago now survive with few disabilities and it is earlier ones that only survive with disability. In ten years may be those ones will survive without much risk.

100% agree
A certain number of the 15% want to work but can’t find a job. The UK has been losing jobs at a rate of 150 jobs per day. The biggest losers of this are young people looking for their first post education full time job and people over age 50 being made redundant due to being expensive employees (ageism.) employers are also not hiring disabled people because of the extra costs.

That is because MN sends nearly all such chat to FWR.

I don't think people would have a very hard time with this tbh.

Many people already make this exact same calculation when thinking about abortion. This disability would have too poor a quality of life. That one would cost too much and we couldn't manage it emotionally/physically.

And lots of other societies have made similar calculation with infants, often exposing the ones that were seen as needing too many resources, or as having poor quality of life.

The Romans allowed the father of the family to decide if a child was acceptable to even be names and considered part of the family. I suspect, if we ever get there, that is what it will look like - the parents will get to decide what counts as too much of a burden, or not enough quality of life.

What is it that makes you think people would struggle with this?

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. It’s very clear that worth is measured by your ability to be a taxpayer. This is very sad because the benefit to society from someone as disabled as the example you provide or in fact more disabled is so much greater than that.

There is a really big difference between not actively treating an extremely premature baby who is almost certainly going to die and is suffering immensely and posing questions about actively killing intellectually disabled children who are not in pain, not dying, not always suffering because their care needs are deemed too expensive.

We already have laws about doctors making best interests decisions not to provide life-saving or life sustaining care. Active, life-taking eugenics is a completely different thing to that!

And different people will have different views on whether that is progress or not, same as some people will always consider a longer life a better life and others will consider 5 years in a nursing home with severe dementia a life they wouldn't consider worth living.

Personally, no. But that is purely based on an anecdotal experience that my family experienced.

My step brother was allegedly going to be born severely disabled, would be unlikely to live past infancy, his brain would never fully develop, etc. Abortion was discussed with my stepmum, she didn’t have one.

He’s 25, full time employed and fully functional, and gets the occasional migraine. Wildly, wildly different to what we were all told.

I personally wouldn’t, on the off chance they’d gotten it wrong.

Otherwise, it would be about viability and life chances for me. How long will they live, and how painful will it be, and I’d use that information to make a decision.

My son goes to school with children who aren’t expected to make it past compulsory school age, they still have quality of life in the here and now.

We're all alive until we die, I've always found that a strange justification.

On that basis, half the population would be in trouble.

Except aren’t you arguing for we are all alive until someone decides we are too useless to live?

I'd hate for that to be the case, but I am very angry at Labour's stance on this. What with that and the hatred that's being whipped up on social media against those who are perceived to be any kind of burden... 😧

Just curious how a child who laughs, plays and has interests can have a poor quality of life just because his parents have to wipe his bum, to be honest.

All the state pensioners for a start…as they’re not paying income tax or NICs on their state pension nor will they be according the Reeves when the state pension goes over the personal allowance amount.

Logans Run 2.0

Are you actually saying you don't even 'struggle' with the idea of murdering a 9 year old child who is not ill or in pain because they are a 'burden'??

I mean, fucking hell guys, one of them has actually come out and said it.

I was just thinking about Logan’s run ! Yes how long before someone decides that pensioners are also an issue