To think there is a definite surge in annoyance towards the disabled?

[WarySwan]

I have seen it in real life. Not just social media forums and news outlets where every other post seems to be about 'free money this for disabled' and 'free cars'.

My 2 children have autism. They get highest rate DLA. About £800 a month. We get respite care funded that costs the tax payer about £700 a month.

Just had an extension on our new build house, housing association, brand new bedroom and ensuite installed. Free of charge through the council.

Motability 7 seater car. 25 plate.

People seem to just see this and see the money. They do not see the costs that are present because of disability. The amount of time and resources it takes to keep 2 profoundly children at home.

They do not see that my children will need 24/7 care for life. 2-1 support in public. The constant cleaning and caring. Waking up at the crack of dawn, years on end. Cleaning smearing and endless washing. Endless marks on your body from a child who doesn't get that taking a chunk out of you will hurt that much and scar

Watching your eldest almost die as he can't speak a word or use a communication device. Meaning appendicitis went undetected until he was almost dying. The constant battle of keeping a cannula in his arm with hospital staff just not getting why a play therapist does not bloody cut it and he needs constant supervision that I cannot possibly do 24/7 without moving from the bedside. The weeks spend in recovery because of this.

If we do not or cannot provide this care, residential placements are about £40,000+ per month. Yes. Per month. It is eye watering in cost. That won't change anytime soon because social care is beyond shot to bits.

My children deserve the best life possible. And a dignified society should surely want to ensure this happens? Children who are not disabled and their parents have options. They have chances and doorways. Mine will never work. Never have a marriage or children, they won't even be able to cook a basic meal.

There is no overtime or upskilling for me. No situation where they fly the nest and I can focus on my career again. Unless they become some dangerous through no fault of their own that a 40k plus a month placement goes ahead as the alternative means I could die or be seriously injured, and that would mean they'd be at risk if I am literally unconscious on the floor.

They still deserve dignity and compassion. The chance of a good life. They are very happy currently. Good routines that are followed to a T. Safe at home because I have the resources to do it.

Care placement does not save money. Unfortunately. It would cost over ten times what I get in benefits.

I have seen so many mentions of people saying those on benefits should have no savings at all. Nothing. Really? You think my life isn't hard enough? You think I shouldn't be allowed a small nest of savings too?

When I finally drop down from caring, I will have next to no pension. After spending a lifetime ensuring the state doesn't have to take full responsibility for 2 adult men that will mean at least 4 paid members of staff are present at all times.

I am not just talking about MN. It is everywhere. Even 'funny' reels on Instagram targeted about how the disabled get this and that. How they should all drive a basic tiny car that has something written in bold to make sure everyone knows its a free car, as if they're really disabled, they'll use. That'll stop the chancers eh!

This is NOT about criticism towards PIP and DLA for things people deem questionable... even though they almost certainly dont have all the facts. This is about the blatant and not hidden disgust and begrudge of help to those with lifelong and profound disability

PEOPLE keep saying in black and white, no room for confusion in their words, that the disabled get too much. That it isn't fair.

I suppose this thread will get deleted. But a lot of views seem to be going unchallenged about the disabled that wouldn't be allowed if it was about something else that's suppose to be a protected characteristic. Seems to have quite a few comparisons with a certain country in Europe 80 or so years ago. When the hatred and deceit was being thrown around and brain washing people before not many years later, the public became okay with euthanasia of them.

Hell, I am sure we are already there for some. As I have seen with my own eyes, people commenting on MN and the likes of social media where their bloody name and pictures of themselves and their work can be traced, that euthanasia could be an option, ideally.

I think unfortunately it's like the immigrants issue. " Only illegals, economic refugees- legal immigrants are ok" the rapidly it's degenerated to "all foreigners even with Indefinite leave to remain". ...

I don’t disagree with that, but how many of those people, realistically, are we talking about and what jobs are they doing?

Surely there must be people working at supermarkets and things claiming PIP (I’m not talking wheelchair users here- not every person claiming PIP is a wheelchair user)
Or is every PIP claimant sat at a desk typing? Genuine question, I’m actually trying to understand this. I ask because I looked into it myself as suggested by a friend who claims. I found the criteria for claiming really strict and it did get me wondering how working works along side it in some cases.

@Araminta1003 sorry, ‘neurodiverse’ is a bugbear of mine. It is so often used to give weight to a need for eg adaptations but then the only group considered tend to be specific articulate groups of autism and/or ADHD advocates. Suddenly all other types of ‘neurodiversity’ that cause people difficulties, and their needs, are ignored.

Just throwing a spanner in the works here, how does this relate to NHS spending cap on patients then?

It’s about £30k per year of life.

If treatment costs above any beyond that special cases need to be made.

These are innocent people who deserve life they just happened to get ill.

And this is why hard decisions about costs have to be addressed. It’s impossible on a functioning society to not talk about money, and how much one person, regardless of their circumstances, can, not would like to be, but just can be allocated.

Whilst people might voted emotionally, decisions taken will be taken without emotion.

You think the media are a scapegoat?

You think there is nuance in the way the Daily Mail, GB News, The Telegraph etc discuss these issues?

There is not.

It's about a hair's breadth from propaganda and it's utterly designed to steer the voting public away from electing those who would heavily tax their billionaire owners.

I agree with you re tribalism in the general public, but media moguls are not a tribe.

I have just seen that my reply has been hidden for MN to have a look at it.
It included the disablist slur that I was called last night. Apologies, I should have used some asterisks rather than full word.. I hope the rest of my post can still stand.

Morally disgusting. I would never abort a baby on the sole basis of it being disabled.

I know a woman who gave up her baby at a few months old because she was told he would be disabled, but that “how disabled” would reveal itself as he grew up.

She regrets it, and I think she’s an arsehole. She didn’t even give that kid a chance.

Autistic people can score enough PIP points for basic rate just in Social and communication section of the form. And yes, they can be doing programming or other IT jobs "sat at a desk typing" at home.

You can look up the statistics. The current low % of PIP claimants working is a recent development because the criteria have tightened so much that DWP often reject perfectly valid PIP claims on the basis the person has a job (usually not full time work because they can’t work full time) or on the basis that the person can drive a car.

PIP has been slowly morphing into a de facto too disabled to work benefit.

It was never meant to be that kind of disability payment. It was originally created to close the cost of living gap between disabled workers and abled workers because being disabled costs on average £1k/mo more to have the same living standard as an abled person when all other factors are equal.

In my experience, the NHS goes above and beyond when there is a chance of survival even if it means a high cost.

My son has cost an absolute fortune to the NHS and without modern medicine, he wouldn't still be here today.

Not saving him unless we got to the point where they believed it wouldn't be in his best interests was never an option. They outright told me that, even when it wasn't expected that he would survive.

I have an elderly relative who is on the top rate of DLA for mobility and virtually housebound. She is a pensioner and gets an element of housing and council tax benefit. She also a non driver and cannot walk to a bus stop. So her DLA pays for a taxi on the occasions she has a hospital or doctor appointment. She has been offered a motability scooter but will not apply for one as she does not want her neighbours to know she is on any kind of benefit. She does not want to cope with the stigma or the possibility of snitches. What a dreadful situation for a woman who has worked all her life and paid her share into the community.

No I don't know it thank you.
Remember anyone can become disabled and most of us will at some point, or care for someone who is. We need to stop seeing disability as a calamity.

No, because like I said in my comment, the issue isn’t the existence of welfare or benefits, it’s that the net is so wide that people who don’t actually need it are also entitled.

None of the situations I described are illegal as far as i understand, so what would I be reporting? At a push maybe the social housing one, which then would slowly be investigated and the tenant just start moving back in for longer periods.

You think The Guardian or the Independent is any better? Or the BBC? It is all propaganda. Left and Right.

I think YABU @WarySwan because people with disabilities, have always been the subject of hate and vitriol, and bitterness and venom. Especially as some of them receive GASP disability benefits and allowances to make their life more comfortable/a little bit easier. And some of them, wait for it, have a BLUE BADGE!

I know right, utterly scandalous! 😱

For the avoidance of doubt, I am joking obvs.

But yeah @WarySwan Some people have always been vile to people with disabilities.

The U.K. is something of an outlier internationally in that what in other countries are two completely separate issues are in the U.K. lumped together.

so for example in most European countries there is a disability benefit which you do not need to have ever worked to get. This is aimed at the severely and profoundly disabled who were most likely born with their disabilities.

then there is a separate incapacity benefit which is aimed at people who have acquired a disability or are temporarily ill - so for example cancer patients or people who have had a stroke or been in an accident. In most European countries you need to have contributed the equivalent of national insurance to claim this.

only in the uk are those two groups put together with the claiming of PIP. They are really two quite separate groups.

so in Europe the disability (not incapacity) benefits are mostly assessed by medical professionals and there are far far fewer claims because the incapacity people who are ill or have acquired a disability are not included in this group.

the incapacity group of people are cut down by the fact that you need to have worked and contributed in order to claim. So the first step in any claim is “have you paid in” which again cuts down the numbers of claims. The equivalent in the U.K. is contributions based esa.

so the U.K. and other European countries are not really comparable. We do have DLA for under 16s which you can compare to European disability benefits, and both are rising slowly, this is mostly thought to be due to increased survival of premature babies (and most of this group are very obviously severely disabled and would get benefit in both systems).

the incapacity benefits are not rising as much in other European countries and this is almost certainly due to the fact that you need to have paid in to a certain level to claim, which is not the case for pip.

This.
No one begrudges the help you rightfully deserve OP. Truly. Take all the help you need and more, your situation sounds very very difficult.

It's situations that this poster has mentioned that have become common to the point that 'everyone knows someone' taking the piss.
My 'someone' is a close family member who I know categorically does not need the help she receives as she has hugely exaggerated her circumstances.

It's infuriating.

You know very well that most people will not report family and friends even when they know they're defrauding the taxpayer. This is why the figure for benefit and especially PIP fraud is so laughingly low. Sick of seeing the 0.000001% bullshit figure being parroted on here. It's an absolute nonsense.

Thank you! Mumsnet has deleted my post – God forbid we're not polite enough to someone who's spewing disgusting bile towards severely disabled children and pretty much outright advocating for them to be killed. 🙄

These people do exist but the Labour by proxy assisted dying bill fanatics see no need to safeguard against them

I would add the BBC on to this list, as they have been publicly reprimanded for bias.

the incapacity benefits are not rising as much in other European countries and this is almost certainly due to the fact that you need to have paid in to a certain level to claim, which is not the case for pip.

I think that’s a very tiny brake. Other European countries have much better healthcare than the UK which focuses on prevention and early intervention. So fewer people become permanently incapacitated because they’ve had better healthcare full stop.

Also, many European countries that are more comparable to the UK don’t require paying into their social security system to be eligible. France for example
www.angloinfo.com/how-to/france/healthcare/people-with-disabilities/disability-benefits

I agree with what you’re saying, but just want to let people know (as it’s not usually spoken about) that agoraphobia doesn’t necessarily mean you’re confined to the house.

Some people can’t leave one room, some people have a “safe distance” so the woman who works in the shop, probably can’t get much further than that.

Fraud investigations don’t rely on anonymous tip offs.