To think there is a definite surge in annoyance towards the disabled?

[WarySwan]

I have seen it in real life. Not just social media forums and news outlets where every other post seems to be about 'free money this for disabled' and 'free cars'.

My 2 children have autism. They get highest rate DLA. About £800 a month. We get respite care funded that costs the tax payer about £700 a month.

Just had an extension on our new build house, housing association, brand new bedroom and ensuite installed. Free of charge through the council.

Motability 7 seater car. 25 plate.

People seem to just see this and see the money. They do not see the costs that are present because of disability. The amount of time and resources it takes to keep 2 profoundly children at home.

They do not see that my children will need 24/7 care for life. 2-1 support in public. The constant cleaning and caring. Waking up at the crack of dawn, years on end. Cleaning smearing and endless washing. Endless marks on your body from a child who doesn't get that taking a chunk out of you will hurt that much and scar

Watching your eldest almost die as he can't speak a word or use a communication device. Meaning appendicitis went undetected until he was almost dying. The constant battle of keeping a cannula in his arm with hospital staff just not getting why a play therapist does not bloody cut it and he needs constant supervision that I cannot possibly do 24/7 without moving from the bedside. The weeks spend in recovery because of this.

If we do not or cannot provide this care, residential placements are about £40,000+ per month. Yes. Per month. It is eye watering in cost. That won't change anytime soon because social care is beyond shot to bits.

My children deserve the best life possible. And a dignified society should surely want to ensure this happens? Children who are not disabled and their parents have options. They have chances and doorways. Mine will never work. Never have a marriage or children, they won't even be able to cook a basic meal.

There is no overtime or upskilling for me. No situation where they fly the nest and I can focus on my career again. Unless they become some dangerous through no fault of their own that a 40k plus a month placement goes ahead as the alternative means I could die or be seriously injured, and that would mean they'd be at risk if I am literally unconscious on the floor.

They still deserve dignity and compassion. The chance of a good life. They are very happy currently. Good routines that are followed to a T. Safe at home because I have the resources to do it.

Care placement does not save money. Unfortunately. It would cost over ten times what I get in benefits.

I have seen so many mentions of people saying those on benefits should have no savings at all. Nothing. Really? You think my life isn't hard enough? You think I shouldn't be allowed a small nest of savings too?

When I finally drop down from caring, I will have next to no pension. After spending a lifetime ensuring the state doesn't have to take full responsibility for 2 adult men that will mean at least 4 paid members of staff are present at all times.

I am not just talking about MN. It is everywhere. Even 'funny' reels on Instagram targeted about how the disabled get this and that. How they should all drive a basic tiny car that has something written in bold to make sure everyone knows its a free car, as if they're really disabled, they'll use. That'll stop the chancers eh!

This is NOT about criticism towards PIP and DLA for things people deem questionable... even though they almost certainly dont have all the facts. This is about the blatant and not hidden disgust and begrudge of help to those with lifelong and profound disability

PEOPLE keep saying in black and white, no room for confusion in their words, that the disabled get too much. That it isn't fair.

I suppose this thread will get deleted. But a lot of views seem to be going unchallenged about the disabled that wouldn't be allowed if it was about something else that's suppose to be a protected characteristic. Seems to have quite a few comparisons with a certain country in Europe 80 or so years ago. When the hatred and deceit was being thrown around and brain washing people before not many years later, the public became okay with euthanasia of them.

Hell, I am sure we are already there for some. As I have seen with my own eyes, people commenting on MN and the likes of social media where their bloody name and pictures of themselves and their work can be traced, that euthanasia could be an option, ideally.

Whilst there's nothing to stop that poster putting in a claim for her child, there's nothing to say they'll be awarded because for the millionth time it goes off needs and not diagnosis

Hi all, we appreciate everyone engaging in good faith with this discussion.
We always welcome thoughtful debate about policy, social care, or the many challenges faced by disabled people and their parents and carers, but posts that suggest people as burdensome or less valuable are obviously not acceptable, even if it's playing devil's advocate.

Apologies if moderation has been slow today - we’ve been dealing with several busy threads. Thanks to those posting within our guidelines and who have taken the time to report - please continue to do so.

I think that a lot of people begrudge people with disabilities a bit of luxury because of the "tax payers" especially those with mental illness, I've seen comments on social media about how no one is that mentally ill they can't work, then I look at my own mum who hasn't worked in 30 years due to having schizophrenia, she has just recently come out of hospital after being sectioned for the 5th time, she can't work and lives on PIP and universal credit and there are people who would moan about her having a few treats every now and then to make her life a bit less difficult and give her something to enjoy, people need to stop blaming disabled people for needing help with things most people take for granted and I think they should have extra money so they can live a meaningful life with no added worries, people who want disabled people to live a bare minimum life are in my opinion, evil.

Oh I know they do, and they will more for a child, but there are many illnesses and people where expensive new drugs will be, are, denied?

Would they have made the decisions with a 62 year old say? Who knows? Maybe but maybe not.

For society to function, and that includes keeping workers happy to work, someone somewhere has to take emotionless decisions about money. That’s what this thread is about, money, who should and shouldn’t get how much.

I don’t know the perfect answer, there isn’t one. I don’t think.

People have children who need 2-1 care 24 hours, these children will grow into adults. In theory to provide 2-1 care 24/7 that is, 3 x 8!hour shifts plus breaks, potentially 6 and a bit members of staff a day, and that’s just care, there will be cleaners, food, admin, legal, medical. All needed. And this level of care can be absorbed, for a finite number of people, what happens if the number of people needing this level of care just can’t have it, because of funds or the ability to staff it?

And this could be the tipping point, it just becomes not possible for a reason. Will the then present Government just say, ok only self finders can pay? Will a governing party be voted in if they will say that?

The numbers in terms of finance, when workers are feeling poorer with each passing budget, will push some to vote for parties who are more heartless. “No such thing as society” - and then what happens? It’s a depressing thought.

The care and benefits system is likely to come crashing down, it’s starting to already, they are moving costs for SEND education from local authorities to central government in 2/3 years, do you think they are doing this to spend more? Because I don’t.

And this can be done now because it’s not a vote loser. We are heading towards harder times perhaps, unless the voices of a caring society can argue against this propaganda before the next general election. And that has to be done without emotions. Otherwise it won’t work.

Yes, I am actually. I am worried my very severely disabled children will get less because of the increasing number of claims like the friend I described earlier.

However, I am also worried that one of my children will be seen as in need of benefits because it is so completely obvious (non verbal, nappies yada yada) but that my (slightly) speaking child who is still obviously severely disabled but not 'profoundly' won't and will be expected to work or starve because he can say a few simple sentences and mostly use the toilet.

So, I guess it depends on where the line is re-drawn.

Thank Becky ... xx I didn't see the deleted posts, but yeah, I know some people can get verrrry vocal in their views of people with disabilities, especially if they claim benefits.

Then you always get outlandish tales like how a 'teenager' has a mobility car, and £3000 a month benefits. And there's always some people who know someone who has a new car every year, 3 holidays abroad every year, 3 meals out a month, name brand clothes, a £2000 phone, a massive 84" wide telly, and a free house from the council! And apparently these posters know more than the doctors and consultants, because they just know that there's nothing wrong with these people they are berating.

I'm always like 🙄

The assisted dying legislation is going to be a disaster. It's completely unfit for purpose, and they've rejected the safeguards needed to prevent coercion. 😢

Why did we get posts deleted criticising people for those awful attitudes? I think if people are going to say those disgusting things, then they deserve strong pushback and to be told why they are wrong.

I am not against disabled people getting help and support and same for their carers.

But the problem is the government is taking money from people who are already spending all day working hard and taxed like crazy and giving it to others. Some need it more than others. But what are we going to provide,while I would argue you need a car, do you need a brand new one?! Also would it be better to have residential institutions where carers and these children could live with support. Rather than making modifications to so many people’s houses. I am not sure the tax payers money is being spent efficiently. Also the reason why a lot of people are cross is that even after working hard their children are unable to have a decent quality of life as no spare money is left. But there is enough for others to not work a job and be paid to care for their own children. In most other countries people have to care for their own children disabled or not. The state doesn’t. Families come together and support their children. There are families with 4-5 sen kids. Why have so many if you can’t support them?

Ooh that’s interesting.

thank you.

the page does seem to imply the benefit is means tested - do you happen to know if this is the case?

pip is used as evidence for disabled rail cards and the like so if it were to be means tested there would need to be a way (a bit like child benefit) where you could “notionally” claim it but not get the money.

There have been offensive posts on both “sides”

I'm so sorry for what your mum has to go through. Of course she deserves to have nice things. 💐

Vile.

this is true
one 'side' says im not sure your waste of space child should be allowed to carry on draining resources for the next 60 years,

and

and the other replies to that - fuck off

People made comments earlier in the thread saying that severely disabled children should not be kept alive because it is too expensive to the tax payer. That is exactly the same attitude that led to the Aktion T4 program in 1930s Germany.

really.

yes.

did you happen to notice all the deleted posts on this thread?

they weren't sharing kitten videos.

Yes, I was in shock reading the list of perfectly reasonable suggested amendments to the assisted dying bill that would have strengthened safeguarding against coercion, strengthened the protections against accepting requests from suicidal people that really don’t have the mental capacity to agree to their own death, prevented doctors from signing off on the death request without ever meeting the patient or having access to their full medical records, added a clear ban on assisted dying for teens and minors so parents couldn’t send their children to be euthanised, requiring the use of the more expensive lethal medications that have a lower rate of failures and let’s just say traumatic deaths and many other amendments- all rejected with no explanation or discussion.

It wasn’t fit for purpose and the members that were pushing it through were not at all open to writing a good law with robust protections despite their promises to the public via the media.

@MNHQ

So, you allow this to stand. You allow a poster to call women who get abortions for whatever reason they choose disgusting? But you delete my reply calling this poster the same, for judging women who use their legal right to abortion and exercise control over their own bodies and lives?

At least we know that mumsnet is an anti-abortion site now.

But why does it have to be. 7 seater with a 25 plate. I'd love to be able to afford that.

A few points..

1. Some of us don’t want our children to go into a residential service, thank you. They will stay at home with us for as long as is possible. Residential is not an “instead,” it’s an “if I can no longer meet their needs.”

1. Being paid to care for your own children saves the state a fortune. Carers allowance does not equate to the cost of finding round the clock external care.

You cannot force children into “institutions,” and it wouldn’t actually save money - our labour is cheaper.

I think the difference is I didn’t resort to calling you names, and you did.

Exactly. God forbid we hurt the delicate feelings of those advocating for killing disabled children.

Obviously people are not complaining about situations like OPs when they are discussing the sustainability of PIP claims.

I read something recently that began, "We are living in a culture of excuses." It was in reference to parents giving their children terrible diets, but I think it applies here. We, as a society, are begging to be babied by the government. Could the answer be that people need to develop better resilience? Would we be better off if instead of saying, "Life is hard at the moment, so what is the government/what are schools/what is the NHS going to do about it?", we said, "Life is hard at the moment, what can I do about it?"?

Between 38% and 44% of PIP claims are being claimed for anxiety, mental health, and behavioural disorders. That's up from 28% 5 years ago. Does anyone really think that is sustainable?

I have ADHD. I was diagnosed as a teenager. I had to move schools as a child because my behaviour was not being handled well by the teachers. I have never claimed PIP. I'm not disabled. I live with a challenge and have to work hard to overcome it, just like the majority of people.

Life is no harder now than it has been over the history of the cultured world. We are just way worse at coping with it now. And we, as a culture, aren't brave enough to say, "Things are hard, it's normal to have challenges, what are YOU going to do to cope with it?"

Again, this is not about the OP. This is about the growing number of PIP claims for MH which are the subject of these conversations.

Yes it is means tested in a complex fashion, mostly because its purpose is like PIP, to equalise the standard of living. If for example, a person stops work and gets an employer disability pension then that is counted as part of their overall income. The benefit amounts are much higher as it is up to total income replacement to a minimum standard of living. PIP is a pittance in comparison.