Which one of these parents would you judge more

[Cantbearsedtosortthoseelvesout]

Or think of as a crappier parent?

Child A-6-Always dressed immaculately in new clothes, new toys, hair beautifully done, wears make up a fair amount and mum & grandma spray perfume on her, has a mobile phone-‘Just’ with games on and adult Youtube. Child swears, calls people fat or ugly and laughs,

Or

Child B-6-Scruffy, often without shoes, clothes with paint or food down them at weekends, unbrushed hair, mainly at weekends, baths once per week

ive never heard of people not showering at least once a day until I joined mumsnet. Both children need parents who parent.

@PyongyangKipperbang Yes we survived but it didnt make for a happy childhood. Or at least it didnt for me. So I do not subscribe to the "it didnt do me any harm" school of thought. If we all did that then kids would still be having horrific corporal punishment as a matter of course.

Why leap straight to extremes? Of course it’s fantastic that children are treated better than we were in the ‘70s. All I’m saying is it’s gone a little too far in that it seems children are NEVER allowed to feel even remotely uncomfortable. Being told ‘no’ can be upsetting for many (not just ND) kids but it still has to happen if the desired result is a well-rounded, resilient adult. ‘Can I go barefoot out in public?’ ‘No you can’t, you could hurt yourself’. There’s nothing wrong with teaching appropriate self care because we know more than them. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.

I actually feel sorry for both kids - one seems treated as older than she is the other a bit neglected and the mother a bit proud about her being unkempt.

come on situation b is obviously far worse straight up neglect and the poor child is probably ostracised at school for smelling bad.

I also don’t agree with devices for little kids and my 8 year old doesn’t have one but the phone is obviously being used no differently to how millions of kids that age use iPads. An iPad basically is a giant phone after all I don’t get why people act like one is way worse.

Have you had any interaction with a neurodiverse child? Shoes can often be a trigger for them.

My view is that both styles of parenting have merits and demerits. Child A is clearly well cared for and loved. However, wearing makeup (unless just as part of play), liberal access to screen at age 6 and feeling that it is ok to call others names indicates that some aspects of their parenting is not so good. Child B parenting seems to allow the child to explore and express themselves and place less emphasis on physical appearance and has boundaries in place. However, allowing to the child to not comply with necessities relating to personal hygiene/grooming is not such good parenting. Hair brushing is a daily necessity and only gets more tangled and thus harder if not done. Even if the child is ND, they need to brush their hair (I have ND grandchild who hates haircuts but it still has to be cut). Daily baths are not a necessity for a child, and to my mind once a week is ok as long as they wash hands and face and bottom and wear clean underwear daily. Grubby top clothing is not such an issue if they are playing out or doing messy activities.

Am much closer to child B in my parenting - mine are a bit scruffy, have hand me down clothes that they cover in paint and dirt while playing but I do insist on shoes and wash them slightly more often. I would feel a bit sad for child A as it sounds like they don't get to properly play much

Neither is ideal, is it? While it's obviously wrong to anyone with half their wits to raise a child to think appearance is so important that you should faff about with adult cosmetics in childhood and insult people who don't meet your idea of attractive, there's a balance. Allowing a child to be dirty and unkempt isn't particularly pleasant for them either.
I'd probably judge child As parents for bringing up their child with these attitudes, and think that Bs parents may need some help to care for them properly.
A child needs to be bathed regularly and have the knots combed out of their hair each day for hygiene and comfort, and to have clean clothes to start each day, as this is social etiquette. Shoes should be worn when feet need protection.

Maybe get your child in the bath more? Or make sure she's clean a different way, otherwise absolutely child B would be mine. Permanently filthy and up a tree. Also in the bath every night religiously. (Yes, I do know about skin oils).

I'm more of a parent b than a.

My children are never pristine, their clothes get washed regularly but have the telltale stains of grass and mud on the knees. I'm not throwing out perfectly good clothes because they are a bit stained, only if they are trashed. They live in joggers and hoodies, I will only insist on nicer clothes for a formal occasion.

They go through stages where they might have a bath or a shower every day then we might be a bit lax and it's a few days but they never smell but with one of them being 10 we have discussed that he will need to be washing daily before long because he will start to smell.

I don't care about them wearing socks in the house, if it's summer they can go barefoot in the garden. Shoes worn in the winter or in public.

They have short hair so I never brush it and only ever do anything with it if it's sticking up and needs a quick flatten.

Neglect is never washing their clothes or them, refusing to buy shoes, not feeding them. It's not letting them get a bit dirty, wear stained clothes or only getting them washed once a week when they are little and don't smell.

Most kids would be fine, sure, with very gentle soap? Not the ones with skin issues or eczema, obviously.

I’m sorry; I would judge both of you.
child A parents because they clearly care more about material things than their own child and your parenting because despite your protestations your child is scruffy and untidy. Ok at the end of the day, but not to start!

But there is no mess, man spit and vomit in my house and garden?! She doesn’t go out without socks and shoes obviously

That is a very nice and considered response.

If your child is running round barefoot and playing outdoors all the time or with messy crafts, you'd do far better to encourage a daily bathing habit to remove the inevitable dirt these activities attract. It's a lot of faff to wash hands, arms, feet, face, legs, knees, separately and as your child reaches the age where they do this themselves, they'll cut corners. Better for an active child to have a quick shower/bath routine that is followed automatically.
Curly hair also needs daily care as the longer it's left the knottier it becomes.

As someone with thick curly hair you need to learn and teach her how to care for it. Never ever brush it dry, use a wet brush/tangle teezer in the bath/shower when it has conditioner in then rinse. From someone whose mother also used detangling spray you will be hurting her doing that, it's not enough and will also cause product build up that you're only washing out once a week. Why can't she shower on non hair wash days just get her a shower cap.

I think you are using different language to describe both children. You describe yours as independent and strong willed, yet doing as she is asked is described as 'a battle' and she is point blank refusing to wash, that behaviour is more than that.

I also think giving a6 year old a phone and make up is wrong but two things can be true

Read about the Curly Girl hair method. Never brush curly hair when dry. It’s VERY painful and results in frizz. In fact never use a brush - curl combs are much better both for effect and the person being combed!
Detangle fully when wet, use a diffuser to dry.

There so much info online now about Curly hair, Curlyzia on Instagram has a book about girls growing up with curly hair.

She may only need hair washed once a week so can be tied up but please bath her at least twice. Doesn’t need to be every day. She will get teased in the next couple of years at school for being smelly if you don’t insist on better hygiene now.

She doesn’t smell and is clean and presentable, just more relaxed at weekends
A 6 year old unsupervised for hours at a time, even at night on YouTube for adults is really worrying to me. She already shows Dd dances and twerking etc

How is your dd spending time with her? If your dd goes to her house then stop that.

I’d think A is been made to act far too old for her age and it’s down to the mum wanting a ‘doll’.
Id think B was possibly neglected or come from poverty.

Id judges A as one of those family who’s treating a little child like a teenager.

I’d judge B as being neglected.

But I wouldn’t be friends with either so I’d be judging based on a snap shot of seeing as described exactly in the opening post. Make up and phones vs scruffy with food down them and unbrushed hair with no shoes.

Id truly judge them both.
No excuse for a scruffy child.

both sound like the sorts of people who should not have children

Hard agree.

OP- there is no excuse for a filthy child. Please instill some hygiene practices. It is neglect, pure and simple. Stop worrying about the other parent. Concentrate on your own parenting. It's lacking.

If hair isn’t brushed then what about teeth? It’s neglect. You have to force them.

Take away privileges, dont allow them out.

Allowing a child to be dirty makes them a target for bullies and sets them up for failure Uk adulthood (job, friends, confidence and self esteem). Not good.