To challenge autistic DD’s detention?

[ThisFairShark]

Dd (14) is autistic, diagnosed at age 8. She has trouble reading social cues and knowing what is/isn’t appropriate to say, she’s always very honest at all times! and has a support plan at school and is under the SEND team.

In school, she wasn’t paying attention in her science lesson and a teacher apparently said “(DD’s name) am I boring you?” to which DD replied “yes a little”. The whole class started laughing and DD got given a lunchtime detention to be served next week.

I know for all intents and purposes this is rude behaviour but I’ve spoken to DD and she genuinely didn’t realise that this was something she wasn’t supposed to say, the teacher asked a question and she gave an honest answer…

now I’ve spoken to her about how the teacher actually just wanted her to pay attention and this was their way of asking her to do so, but I don’t really think she should have to do the detention as she wasn’t aware that she was being rude nor did she intend to be rude, she just doesn’t have the social awareness to understand that the teacher actually just wanted to pay attention and wasn’t genuinely asking if she found the lesson boring.

WIBU to talk to the school, CC’ing in the SENCO and ask that she be excused from the detention, and that in future, if teachers could be clearer (for example, “pay attention please, DD’s name”)?

I do think that your daughter's disability was badly handled by the teacher - she shouldn't have been asking a rhetorical question to a child who would likely not understand it was rhetorical. However your daughter won't always be talking with teachers who should understand autism and do know her. If the detention helps her to remember that people do sometimes ask rhetorical questions and if an answer seems rude, you shouldn't just blurt it out, even if it seems accurate, that will help her in life.

"She's past the age where it's appropriate for her mum to be getting involved in petty stuff like this"

Power dynamics require intervention @BauhausOfEliott

@ShowerLimescale

"Do you think they would, or should, say ‘oh well, she’s autistic, so I have to suck it up’?"

Only if they, (their boss) does not have the capability of introspection?

Why should our ND children have to "suck up" the inability of people/bosses/teachers/the precious/ who are unable to self-reflect?

The teacher was very obviously not really asking a genuine question expecting a genuine answer though. Most 14 year-olds would recognise 'Am I boring you?' as a rhetorical question and a way of telling them off. The point is that an autistic 14 year-old might not. A teacher should be aware enough about autistic traits to know that. Nobody is perfect though. A teacher might say that out of irritation, but you'd hope they would realise afterwards and not necessarily give a punishment. A quiet word afterwards about why it came across as rude would be better.

@OttersMayHaveShifted

" teacher might say that out of irritation, but you'd hope they would realise afterwards and not necessarily give a punishment"

exactly this.

I understand you are protective, but a lunch time detention isn't going to hurt her, even if she has a spiral.

I absolutely would not at 14, be getting involved and let her start to advocate for herself, by apologising to the teacher and explaining what happened.

If it makes your daughter feel any better, I mistook a very similar rhetorical question from my maths teacher during A level studies at 16 years of age. I didn't get a detention but was suprised and ashamed to see that my teacher was upset by my honest answer that I didn't enjoy her maths lessons, and it made me realise that she was a person with feelings as well as a teacher. I later made up for it by getting the top score out of the school on my A level exam though :-)

Please don't

No, it’s a respect thing

This isn't true actually. We work with someone on the spectrum who does not handle anyone disagreeing with him.

Its awful, everyone tries to get away from him all the time, the workplace hasn't managed well they have just pushed the managment on to the co-workers.

Has the teacher considered being less boring?

@2021x

"but a lunch time detention isn't going to hurt" isn't it the principle though?

This teacher needs to reflect if @ThisFairShark advocates for her daughter?

Sadly, zero replies from @ThisFairShark thus far 😞

She was rude, it's that simple so why are you making excuses for her? If you attempt to get the detention revoked you're basically saying it's ok for her to be rude because she's autistic. You're also undermining the teacher so how is your daughter going to respect them in the future?
She does the detention and learns not to be rude.

I used to get in trouble for things like this at school all the time. I wasn't trying to be rude or argumentative and never understood why I was in trouble. I ended up being really badly behaved at school because I just sort of assumed that's what I was because I was in trouble without trying all the time anyway and it's a role that felt easy to do as an autistic teenager.
I think YANBU because she wasn't trying to be rude she was answering a question she was asked.

@FieldInWhichFucksAreGrownIsBarren

"She was rude, it's that simple so why are you making excuses for her"

the teacher asked a question, the child answered, why is that rude?

Because the answer didn't massage the teacher's ego?

Jesus. She's 14

I thought she was 8. My misread

Keep out of it, OP. Honestly she should know at 14. The detention might help her learn

She could be working in 4 years. Are you going to email the CEO to complain? 🙄

This. I think even if the detention stands it might be worth putting her comments into context and looping in the SENCO. The teacher needs to be clearer with their communication and not being flippant.

Agree. Punishment without explanation (and a week after the event?) will not have the desired impact given OP's daughters neurodiversity.

This isn't about letting a rude child off without punishment as some posters are harping on about - this is about clear communication (the teacher should do this, regardless of pupils SEN needs. It is best practice!) and also ensuring that OP's daughter actually understands the issue/ what is an appropriate response and importantly pays attention in class. Consequences need to be clear, fair, and immediate. This does not meet those thresholds and will have a counterproductive result.

I wouldn't challenge it.

i would use it as a teaching moment. It's odd that autistic or not, that she's got to 14 and you haven't had a conversation about that kind of response being inappropriate, and rude.

(both my 16 & 19yo's are autistic)

The teacher made a flippant comment to an autistic child. And was surprised they received a literal response. They were then embarrassed because it caused the rest of the class to laugh. The teacher should know better about clear communication.

The fault was not OP's daughters response to poor communication..

OP's daughter should be pulled up for not paying attention/ listening. That should have been done at the time. But the teacher messed it up with poor delivery.

Even if they had a conversation about those types of responses being rude, doesn't mean she'd be able to recognise that the response she gave was the "rude" type. She was literally asked a question and answered it, it can be basically impossible to guess what someone else might think or feel as an autistic person so if she herself wouldn't be offended or find it rude, it's understandable that she didn't understand that the teacher would find it rude.

A 14 year old was rude the diagnosis is not an excuse

It is when the diagnosis is literally a social communication disorder.
thats like saying being in a wheelchair isn't an excuse not to be able to walk up the stairs.

Does the teacher even know she's autistic? I wouldn't assume that just because it's written down somewhere that her teachers all know. DS's teachers often seemed unaware when we said at parents evening that he was autistic/dyspraxic.

DS was always very honest, one of his teachers at primary school would always ask him what happened if there was an incident because she knew he'd always tell the truth.

I think it's worth talking to your dd about white lies and rhetorical questions, she'll probably still find it difficult to judge but at least she'll hopefully be more aware.

I would get her to do the detention for not paying attention in the first place - but I'd also talk to her about whether she is struggling with filtering out distractions and staying attentive. DS really benefitted from sitting at the front of the class right in front the teacher as he struggled to filter out distractions so worth considering.

Could you be more ignorant? of course a social communication disorder is an excuse for having a social communication misunderstanding.

I have an autistic son, personally I wouldn’t challenge it. Whatever the intention the impact of what she said was rude. It’s not a nice thing to say and it’s ok to learn that.