To challenge autistic DD’s detention?

[ThisFairShark]

Dd (14) is autistic, diagnosed at age 8. She has trouble reading social cues and knowing what is/isn’t appropriate to say, she’s always very honest at all times! and has a support plan at school and is under the SEND team.

In school, she wasn’t paying attention in her science lesson and a teacher apparently said “(DD’s name) am I boring you?” to which DD replied “yes a little”. The whole class started laughing and DD got given a lunchtime detention to be served next week.

I know for all intents and purposes this is rude behaviour but I’ve spoken to DD and she genuinely didn’t realise that this was something she wasn’t supposed to say, the teacher asked a question and she gave an honest answer…

now I’ve spoken to her about how the teacher actually just wanted her to pay attention and this was their way of asking her to do so, but I don’t really think she should have to do the detention as she wasn’t aware that she was being rude nor did she intend to be rude, she just doesn’t have the social awareness to understand that the teacher actually just wanted to pay attention and wasn’t genuinely asking if she found the lesson boring.

WIBU to talk to the school, CC’ing in the SENCO and ask that she be excused from the detention, and that in future, if teachers could be clearer (for example, “pay attention please, DD’s name”)?

I think she can learn from this experience without having to be punished @redange.

Well if she didn't realise this was rude, it's about time she learned. Being cocky with a future boss will get her fired.
She needs to do the detention and also apologise to the teacher.

Yes, let's force them all to adapt and do things the non-autistic way and make them all pretend to be neurotypical. That usually works out really well 🙄

Right kiddo, you are now 14. Time for you to quit acting visibly autistic. Here's your new neurotypical mask, you must wear it every day and if you let any autism slip, you'll get a detention.

It’s clear from the OP that she wasn’t being cocky. Genuine misunderstanding.

Yes, agree with the point you’re making.
I’m genuinely shocked by a lot of the responses on here.

I am sadly not shocked any more. This site isn't always a particularly pleasant place to exist while autistic 😬

Actually my DH gets many more complimentary emails from parents than he does complaints and he is Autistic.
It isn't professional to use sarcasm in a classroom and then hand out a detention to a disabled child because you don't like their answer.

Your daughter is autistic. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t get to face consequences for her actions.

Obviously i am being Autistic because my grammar spelling and punctuation goes astray at 12.30 AM.

The point being the world is not going to become 'Neurodiverse' so Autistic people to have the best possible life they can need to develop coping strategies, part of that is understanding that some people will give no allowances for Autism. This as most people do not see usually 'articulate' Autistic people as disabled, but rather as lazy rude and distant.

@redange
Even if it helps to learn coping strategies, a 14 year old shouldn’t be punished by her teacher for a misunderstanding related to her disability.
There are better ways to learn!

And the teacher needs to learn too.
It shouldn’t be one-sided, where the autistic person is the only one expected to change their way of communicating.

The world is neurodiverse whether you like it or not. Your brain is not the same as anyone else's and everyone else's is different to each other's. That's all "neurodiverse" means.

GPT:

Hi [SENCO’s name],

I wanted to raise a concern regarding the lunchtime detention DD has been given following an exchange in science. My understanding is that the teacher asked, “DD, am I boring you?” and DD answered honestly, not recognising this as a rhetorical or corrective question.

As you know, DD’s autism means she interprets language literally and often does not pick up on implied meaning or social subtleties. She did not intend to be rude, and her response is consistent with her profile and her support plan.

I am concerned that the detention may amount to DD being punished for a behaviour that arises directly from her autism, which would fall under section 15 of the Equality Act (“discrimination arising from disability”). It also suggests a missed reasonable adjustment, as clearer language such as “DD, please pay attention” would have avoided the misunderstanding entirely.

Could we please:

1. Have the detention removed, and
2. Ask staff to use clear, direct instructions with DD, avoiding rhetorical questions?

I’m very happy to discuss further. Thank you for your support with DD.

Kind regards,
[Your name]

✔️ Summary

• No, it’s not direct discrimination.
• But it is very likely disability-related discrimination and a failure to make reasonable adjustments.
• Yes, you should contact the school and involve the SENCO.
• The detention should be removed.
• Staff should use explicit, literal language going forward.

This is on you. Yes, i get she's autistic do you need to explicitly teach her social rules ie dont tell people they are boring

In secondary schools unlike primary, teachers can teach literally hundreds of kids a week most of which have theirvown individual set of needs and circumstances. They honestly wont in the minute know which kids are autistic, which are adhd, wbich are bereaved, which are depressed, which are anxious, and so on and so on and so on. There are just so many nowadays.

Sweetie?
You should not be speaking to a 14 year old girl like that! So condescending!

If that’s true, it means a letter like the one above is absolutely necessary, surely?
As a reminder.

As a teacher myself, it’s not difficult to glance at a class list and remind yourself which child each lesson may have differences. This argument doesn’t wash. No parent will accept the “we have hundreds of children” excuse as parents’ only concern is their own child.

I do understand autism, I was diagnosed at the age of 9.
Back then you didn’t get away with rudeness though, you were taught to behave in a way that allowed you to function properly in society and to develop manners.
If a child is able to attend a mainstream school they are capable of learning how not to be rude to people.

I think you need to google “masking”
in ND individuals and what the impact on those individuals is. It is not a good thing.

Both my kids are ASD and DS13 also ADHD. My line is that if they’ve done wrong then they need to realise and pay the punishment, and we talk about it and they understand why it’s been deemed wrong. However, I would speak to the senco to ask them to get teachers to understand autism and that in an autistic persons mind they’re doing the right thing by answering a question posed to them

Please go and educate yourself. “Selfish and careless” - what to have a communication disorder? This is a horrible comment. An individual has to know they have done something wrong whether by accident or not to be able to apologise for it. How is an Autistic individual going to know that in the moment of it is not used as a teaching point?
The comments on this thread show how utterly ignorant so many people are about the struggles Autistic people have and the issues that come with it. I will reiterate that figure of 7-9 times more likely to commit suicide. With attitudes and intolerance like those shown in this thread, is it any wonder? You can correct people and help them learn with kindness and compassion not punish or alienate them for things they literally cannot help. People have no idea of the impact a situation like this can have on that child who will likely go home and ruminate on that punishment, struggle with the unfairness and not understand and feel even more alienated than they already do. It’s likely to cause anxiety and confusion and make going to school even harder than it already is. More likely to be bullied, more likely to be isolated. Life is hard enough as it is for ND people in a world not designed for them so how about everyone else eases that burden by just being a bit more understanding. Teach, explain and do so with kindness. It’s not difficult.

She didn’t harm someone Jesus Christ 😂

OP I totally see where you’re coming from. How is DD about the detention? If she doesn’t really care I’d not bother trying to challenge it.

I would drop a line to the school though and inform them that DD intent was not to be rude.

Sorry but people should know better than to use rhetorical/sarcasm with autistic people.

Autism by definition is a social communication impairment (amongst other things I know) so ever likely instances like this happen.

I had a friend who was told to pull his socks up at school. He did exactly that, in front of the teacher. Lol.

Bit dramatic

Thats not true. I have children in my main stream school who cant talk, use a toilet and do not understand anything. They literally respond to light and sound. There are very few special school places.

The particular posters daughter may well be capable. Many autistic people are. Thats what is meant by a spectrum disorder. I have no idea if she is.

But there is no blanket, if you are in a mainstream you can do this. The level of need in mainstream is insane. My son is at a special school and i see pupils with his level of need placed in mainstream.