To feel the Disenfranchised have been Scapegoated.

[Gilead]

Just fed up with a society that has become so incredibly selfish. The vilification of disabled people and the drubbing of benefit claimants whilst managing to forget that most of the people on universal credit are working families. Forgetting that most pensioners have worked and saved all their lives, some still paying tax. And let’s not forget those lazy bastards who are putting on an act in order to get a ‘free’ car.
I predicted this was the way we were headed on mumsnet in 2010. Got called all sorts of names, but, at that point in time people were a lot more understanding of the issues encountered by the disenfranchised.
If you want to come on here and tell me you don’t want to pay extra for someone else to have kids you can’t afford, research it first, look at the (myriad) reasons for this, the figures, the number of women who had extra children during the period. Then think how it would be if you suddenly became disabled, or more severely disabled.
Im off with my carer in a bit. In my Citroen C3 that actually cost me a wee bit more because I had to pay for the wheelchair hoist as well as the (approx) 350 quid every four weeks to cover the lease, and the insurance.

And yet they bang on endlessly about ‘working people’.

No, but your post is totally ridiculous. Why don’t you educate yourself on the rules around mobility cars and who can and cannot get one because you clearly have no idea.

disenfranchise
/ˌdɪs(ɪ)nˈfrantʃʌɪz,ˌdɪsɛnˈfrantʃʌɪz/

verb
past tense: disenfranchised; past participle: disenfranchised
deprive (someone) of the right to vote.
"the law disenfranchised some 3,000 voters on the basis of a residence qualification"
deprive (someone) of a right or privilege.
"we strongly oppose any measure which would disenfranchise people from access to legal advice"

Who are you all talking about?

Disabilities cost more money to live with. You clearly don’t understand that and have no experience of what it’s like to be disabled, or you would not have asked a question like this.

Be happy that you don’t instead of judging what people should spend their money on.

And remember that everyone is only an accident or an illness away from becoming disabled.

Why are we giving her a penny if she’s incurring no costs? Clear cut case of the government flushing oil it money down the loo. Are you ok with that? Because I’m not!

Of course I blame the Tories; and before they got in, in 2010, I was saying that this would be the eventual outcome. Until recently I’ve been a Labour Party member. I may well vote Green in the next election, anything that keeps reform out.

Why should she get the PIP money for bills and a low pay worker not? Can’t you see the issue here? Scrap the entire pip system and start again.

Yes but we make our own financial provisions for that. Savings. Insurance. Don’t you? If not why not?

I’d be happy to let the government give people money for disabilities - if they provide a receipt for costs incurred. If they can’t, they can sod off. I think that’s perfectly fair.

Its not just about social policy or benefits. Its about economic policy, taxation, regulation of small and large business etc etc. The UK is making itself an uninvestable zone. The money and resources are finite.

I’m sure you are correct in that someone is not going to be living it up on universal credit, but the option to only work part time hours and have your income topped up to the level you would get working full time on minimum wage is certainly attractive, especially if you don’t have the skills or ability to earn more than the minimum wage. Why work 40 hours a week when you can get the same income only working for half that.

It all comes back to Maggie Thatcher’s speech about there being “no such thing as society”

Benefits rely on a social contract. If you can work, you do work. If you can support yourself independently, you support yourself independently. You consider whether something like having extra children or living in a certain area is within your means, and you don’t choose to do it if it isn’t.

That way, benefits are there to support people who really can’t do these things and who need to lean on the rest of society for help

If everyone says sod it, why should I work when society will pay me benefits? Why shouldn’t I live in an expensive place I can’t afford and claim top ups? Why shouldn’t I claim extra benefits I’m entitled to even though I don’t need them? Then suddenly there is no society left for those that really need it, and if everyone else is taking the piss then there’s no feeling of being obligated to pay into the social contract because it’s the right and moral thing to do

I don’t believe that people are committing benefit fraud or claiming things that they’re not entitled to. I believe that the goalposts have moved, that more people than ever before are now entitled to claim “something” and that we’ve lost the idea of doing everything you possibly can to support yourself first, before using benefits as an absolute last resort

@thewintergarden

Your friend who takes home £2000 a month working just 16 hours, what is her job?!

That sounds pretty well paid!

Blissful ignorance. Some anxiety is normal. Anxiety off the scale caused by an anxiety disorder is not normal. 🙄

Hope that helps.

p.s. Tell the families of Phillipa Day and Jodie Whiting their anxiety was normal.

I want my taxes to help disadvantaged people who are unable to live without government support, and I want them to be helped to a reasonable standard of living, not a standard where they’re just about getting by

But I don’t want to help those who are deliberately playing the game knowing the government will pick up the tab. I don’t think it should be an option to e.g. go from full time work to part time work plus benefits because your take home pay after childcare is the same either way. If you can work and pay your own way you should do so, and more importantly you should want to do so! And before you make lifestyle decisions that are going to impact on your ability to support yourself, you should be obligated to run the figures and work out whether you can really afford to do it at this moment in time, or whether you need to get yourself into a better position first

True but I was responding to the person saying they are living it up on universal credit, which is just incredibly false

How would that work? How much would a system like this cost to implement?

Clearly you see yourself as superior to disabled people and feel that they should come cap in hand to you, begging you for help.

thewintergarden · Yesterday 19:41

15 years of below inflation pay rises.
15 years of deteriorating public services.
15 years of being squeezed in every direction
Yeah. I don't think anyone can be surprised that working people who sit outside the benefits system are absolutely demoralised and done in
We can't afford multiple children

That sums it up, we are all under pressure from the increased population. More cars, difficult to go into towns. Trains and buses fewer and late.
More laws that are not about making our lives safer but deliberately designed to catch us out, and harshly enforced.
Oxford now a Congestion tax on traffic, They positioned cameras on the roads to the hospital (which is not in the central area) and the station. Just fucking spiteful Labour and LibDems. It will catch people who live out of town and are unaware.

But can you choose that just because you want to? And how exactly?
Because I've claimed UC for the first time recently because I couldn't work for a time, went back on a phased return - before the sick note expired on fewer hours at first, gradually building to full time and I've had to repeatedly explain why I wasn't working full time, all sick notes submitted with supporting evidence that in order to keep working I needed to change department (which comes at a lower rate than my previous wage) and I am now back to full time, 10 weeks in total, out of 30 years working and I've needed to 'justify' my inability to work at all for 6 weeks and work PT for 4 weeks - and if I don't earn full time money next month (I will unless something happens) I'll be required to job search to make up those hours.
So just how, without an illness/disability that physically means you can't sustain ft work, or caring responsibility for someone else which means you can't sustain ft work, do you go about choosing to work part time and be topped up with benefits?
Because at this point I certainly can't choose to do that, I would have to have a lot more illness/disability or be caring for someone that did to 'justify' working part time and recieving benefits to top me up to what I'll be earning on nmw at full time. I've had to give very personal information around my illnesses and it's all felt as if I'm doing something wrong and have to justify existing because for a short time I couldn't work as I always have.
I'm very glad to be now fit enough to be full time again because quite frankly the whole experience is awful - for around one third in benefits what I paid in tax last year.

With my experience I genuinely cannot understand how anyone can choose to work part time and be topped up with benefits just because they don't fancy working full time!

It is possible to recover from an anxiety disorder. More should be done to support people. I don’t think this is done well at present. But encouraging the belief that anxiety is something catastrophic and intolerable is part of the problem. While the cases you mention are tragic - I don’t think anyone would deny that - they shouldn’t be used to shut down conversation about the effects on wider society of an increasing number of people believing the idea that being anxious is a disability. It isn’t.

Do you have children? You need young children for this to be possible

I'm old, I don't think people have changed that much. It's just that before, people didn't foghorn their views/opinions in quite so many ways.

I do but adult now! And that's what I meant by caring responsibilities, I was a single mum and had nothing from her father in terms of finances or care - I wouldn't have been able to work the hours I did if I hadn't had parents, grandparents, siblings and friends who provided childcare around the nursery hours - I worked in care, nursery opened 7.30-6, Mon to Fri, closed Xmas and BHols etc, my shifts were 7.30-21.30, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
Without the support I had - which I absolutely recognise I'm incredibly lucky to have had, I couldn't have worked those hours until my DD were old enough to be left alone, there literally was no other childcare available with child minders etc.
If the extra support isn't available then what do they do? Leave the child at home alone regardless?