DS injured DN on purpose!! Tell SIL?

[Novemberfairy]

We were at SIL’s Sunday for a just a family get-together. DS (12) and his older cousin (17) are normally very close. They always mess about, playfighting, wrestling etc and i’m forever telling them to pack it in before someone gets hurt.

They were doing their usual roughhousing when DN suddenly screamed. Everyone assumed he’d landed funny or twisted something. He tried to play it down but was pale and holding his side. SIL took him to minor injuries later.

SIL messaged Sunday night saying DN has a shoulder sprain and two cracked ribs. I felt awful, but we all genuinely thought it was just a stupid accident from messing about.

Then DS came to me this afternoon. He confessed that he meant to hurt his cousin. Not to this extent but he admitted he’d been getting wound up because DN had been teasing him earlier about being small/immature. He said when they were wrestling he “used a move to hurt him a bit”. His words. He insisted he didn’t want to cause serious injury but he did act on purpose and intentionally made him suffer.

I honestly didn’t know what to say. On one hand he clearly acted impulsively and now feels dreadful. He’s 12, not a monster. But on the other hand he intentionally hurt someone and the outcome was really serious. SIL and DN think it was just a freak accident.

Do I tell SIL the truth? Do I make DS tell her himself? Or is it kinder to handle it privately since he didn’t understand the potential for real harm and is already feeling guilty?

Yes I agree with this. I wouldn’t overreact. I used to play fight with siblings and cousins and things can go too far when someone starts getting annoyed. He wanted to do something that would hurt, a show of strength, he didn’t intentionally break a rib. He feels bad, he’s admitted it. I’d tell him off but wouldn’t out him to whole family. I’d just tell him to apologise and move on. I also wouldn’t tell him to keep it secret as I wouldn’t want him to feel you were covering for him or make it shameful.

I’d put stop to any future play fighting but I bet his cousin will be already thinking that.

I am a foster carer and for many years have looked after teenage boys with complex problems. For what it's worth I agree with the above and in my experience protecting (or making excuses) for a 12 year old on a "minor" issue can lead to more serious things as they age. While dealing with it quite strongly at this age can prevent other violent events happening in future. I have made this mistake myself and wish I could go back and deal with things more seriously.

Haven’t read more than the first page, but I wonder if there’s form for dn belittling ds longterm? “DN had been teasing him earlier about being small/immature” (from the op).

Play fighting between a 12 and 17 yr old sounds like a real power imbalance, and I wonder if this has led to your son trying to retain a sense of his own power? Not condoning it at all, but under the circumstances you’ve described it sounds like Ds would be better with boundaries around fighting and possible bullying from his nearly adult cousin.

How?! How is he watching this content.

“It’s a reach to say the 17 year old is bullying the 12 year old. All OP has said is that he was calling him small. This is normal winding each other up”.

It’s normal and fine if the recipient is ok with it and takes it as banter. It doesn’t sound like the ds is ok with it, and we don’t know how long this fighting has been going on, along with the comments. Since ds was 10 and dn 15? 8 and 13? No matter how I look at it the age gap is too big currently for this type of dynamic to be healthy.

Definitely don't think this is as straight forward as telling SIL and apologising honestly to DCousin 'sorry, I intentionally hurt you'... for one thing I very much doubt his 17 year old DCousin wants everyone to know that a 12 year old hurt him on purpose. Accidentally is one thing, on purpose = loss of face (which we know as he'd been teasing the younger, smaller boy for being younger and smaller!).

He's also not (despite what some ridiculous PP has posted) gone specifically looking for videos on 'how to hurt people', and I doubt this was pre-planned, more a 'you were picking on me earlier you arsehole, now see if you think I am weak and puny' spur of the moment sort of thing.

I also highly doubt he expected whatever he'd seen in wrestling/fighting vids to WORK on a larger boy...

And he has come to you expressing remorse.

Big talk about hurting people, about what could have happened, about how better to handle someone teasing/bullying.

If he IS struggling with perhaps being small for his age or people thinking he is 'weak' - consider enrollment into proper martial arts where amongst other things, they're taught self control/impulse control, and how using their martial art skill in real life unless its genuinely for self defence, is absolutely forbidden.

Or perhaps he is put off that and some other activity that builds skill, teaches self control, empathy, social skills etc.

And defintely, no more wrestling/rough play - it is stupid and someone ends up hurt!

@Novemberfairy report your post. It’s too identifying.

Personally letting this go is a no go for me . Telling or not what he did is serious and disturbing and ta 12 he knows what consequences are . If this wa any son he would loose access to anything online until he showed me he was responsible .
I would also question what sort of parenting is happening since that sort of play is in no way normal

I’m honestly shocked by how many people seem to accept or normalize this kind of behavior. While it’s true that the boy is young, may have been bullied, and did confess to his mother, the fact remains that he caused serious harm to another person, and did so intentionally. What’s even more concerning is that he showed no genuine remorse.

This is a very serious matter, regardless of the underlying causes, and it deserves immediate attention. If it were my child, I would take him to a child psychologist without delay. No parent wants to find themselves asking, in hindsight, “How did I miss this?”, especially in cases where a child’s actions could escalate to something even more dangerous.

I think this too. I wouldn’t tell sil, but I would have consequences for ds, and tell him play fighting is out, he’s shown he can’t handle it. Absolutely out, your entire life will be cancelled if I see you doing it. People manage fine without ever play fighting.

This - they are both idiots. My kids play basketball and a 15 yo team decided to play with only 4 recently although a 10yo had offered to fill in, as they thought the size discrepancy unsafe.

One of my daughters has hurt the other one in the past (both adopted, very challenging behaviours), anyway, my rule is that they are not allowed to be together unsupervised ever. They are in their mid 20s now! The chances for things to quickly spiral are huge. Police could get involved if one of the boys calls them, never mind the getting hurt.

100% supervision is my advice. And no fighting.

I'm not trying to wind you up here, and have huge respect for you doing this, but have you also looked after teenage boys without complex issues? It's not clear from your post.

You need to tell SIL so they can decide if they want to press charges or not.

You can't be serious? You expect a mother to invite the mother of a17 year old bully to give her child a criminal record? Get real.

No he doesn’t but he looks at this type of content on YouTube and TikTok

So, at 12yo, he is interested enough in fighting that he searches for fight club content for on the internet? And you allow him unfettered access to do so via YouTube and TikTok? Are you seeing any problems with this?

It’s interesting thread.

all Mothers of sons should all be made to read “we need to talk about Kevin”!

I agree with PP that this is onviiuosky not ok - but this is a 12 year old boy growing into a man’s body - women can have no idea what is like to realise you are suddenly strong enough to hurt someone. Boys have a leaning curve to manage their strength and impulses.

I really don’t think there are signs here that the 12 year old is a psychopath - not least because his mum is engaged enough to wonder how to handle this, even if the boy had the nature it looks like he has plenty of of nurture to balance it.

the 17 year old though? He should know better than to be wrestling hard with a 12 year old. That should have been stopped a long time ago - that is more worrying than the injury to me! He’s learned a lesson now and I bet the biggest injury is to his ego.

if anything is have a quiet word with the 17 year old about his behaviour and strength and how he js lucky that he didn’t really hurt his little cousin. Show him that awful case of the woman who is now tetraplegic after her partner broke her neck - it is easy for a man to kill somekne smaller. They can do it with a single punch or by swueezing a neck with one hand.

i have teenage sons and they seem to be lovely - bit their strength and it amazes me.it arrived overnight, I guess it is my job to tell them not to strangle girlfriends during sex and to take a breath amd step back before throwing a punch.

Mr Series says his mother never said this to him, he’s one of five boys, and he had a managed to not be violent - but he was not accessing MMA videos at 12, never mind the porn. Things have changed. I’ll have a talk with my boys because of this thread - so, thanks, @Novemberfairy

I'd be going to SIL's and explaining what has happened and make him apologise to his cousin and hope that she will also apologise for winding him up but also making it very clear that the fact somebody wound him up is no excuse for violence.

Him telling you about it and you essentially covering up for him by dealing with it privately instead of making him face it doesn't teach him accountability, it teaches him he can come to you and rely on your protection when he harms someone, which is a lesson nobody should be taught.

Chances are your SIL knows well that it wasn’t an accident as her DS has probably explained to her exactly what happened.

Obviously you need to do something about your DS’s behaviour - what I don’t know but he knows now how to physically hurt someone and knows that he actually can. Next time and there will be a next time, his actions could be fatal.

You’re victim blaming now. Suggesting the OP talks to her nephew and tells him he’s luck he didn’t hurt her son - while her nephew is the injured party and lucky his injuries weren’t more serious.

Yes, absolutely. Have three teenage boys at the moment (one with us due to bereavement and another who had to be separated from his siblings due to their needs). Also have three adult sons who now live elsewhere and two ex foster children in their twenties who continue to be a part of our family. What I meant is when social services have a child with complex needs we are one of the foster homes they place them in. Had some harrowing times but when I look back I see those who took the wrong path in life, and believe had their wrongdoing been addressed earlier, maybe things could have worked out differently. Sometimes the police and social services tend to give too much leeway and compassion to those in care. Only my experience of course, others may think differently.

He lost his rag, didn’t know his own strength and caused an injury rather than the momentary pain he intended to cause. He is horrified at what he’s done and has voluntarily owned up to his mum. It’s bad, of course it is, but don’t be sucked into the MN hyperbole diagnosing him as a psychopathic budding school shooter. It’s not uncommon for pubescent boys to lose their tempers when cornered, and his conscience is working just fine.

I would use this as an opportunity to do some work on self-control - the OP’s suggestion of martial arts training is brilliant - and talk about exit strategies he can use if he feels himself getting wound up again. I wouldn’t blow up the family and make everything worse by telling SIL, that would be insane.

I am, you’re right. I hadn’t thought about it like that - but I do think the age difference is significant. Not many 12 year olds are bigger and stronger than 17 year olds. I’d like to know more about the dynamic between them.

regardless, I’m going to speak to my boys about managing acting on impulse. Or maybe I’ll get their dad to, h ll know more about it than me

I would leave it, nothing good will come from telling her.

Awful, but he admitted to you that he did it which is worth something. I don’t see what good can come out of telling them, do probably would not.