How to prevent grandparents from smacking our child

[Newparent101]

Sorry for the long post, seeking your wise advice!

My partner's dad (aged 70) uses smacking as a way to "teach", which I'm totally against. My partner, however, thinks I'm being unreasonable and that smacking is an effective way to discipline. I just don't agree.

We have our first baby, who's 4 months old. My nieces are 7 and 3, and the grandfather smacks them to "teach" them when they've done something wrong. My sister in law told him she doesn't want him to smack her kids - the grandfather (her father-in-law) stopped speaking to her for a year. Now they have made up, but he smacks her girls again.

I want to find a way to prevent it from ever happening in the first place, and have already told my partner that if his dad (or he) smacks our child I'll immediately take our child away and she won't be seeing her grandfather again.

But of course I want to prevent this ever happening in the first place. I suspect my father-in-law won't listen to me if I state this boundary (given he ignored my sister-in-law for a year and now smacks her girls again). My partner refuses to "lay down the law" with his dad. What's more complicated is his parents don't speak English (they're german) and my german isn't very good.

Anyone have any advice on how to make sure this doesn't happen well ahead of time? Would really like to prevent being in situation where I need to keep our daughter away from him, and also want to ensure that first "smack" never happens. My partner says it's up to me to speak to his dad, but I know his dad won't listen to me. But also struggling to get my partner to acknowledge just how damaging smacking can be (he's also defensive, since of course he was smacked by his dad as a child). My partner and I have had numerous conversations about it already but I can't seem to get through to him.

Unless the OP is in Scotland or Wales, it’s not actually illegal to hit a child so I’m not sure what calling the police would do.

I’d worry about going down a path that leads to splitting up with the partner as then he will have full control over the child regularly.

He has learned that people give into him so you cannot leave a single sliver for him. I wouldn’t be around this at all, but at bare minimum you cannot leave your child for a moment when he’s there. Not a single moment without you supervising - you go to the toilet together, you sleep in the same room (or ideally in a hotel), every single moment. It’s clear no one will protect your child except you.

He’d simply never see them again, but then they wouldn’t exist in the first place as I wouldn’t have had children with a partner who thinks smacking is reasonable. HTH

I would threaten him with law enforcement. Also, you have a partner problem. A big one.

This 100,%

How sure are you that your husband won’t also smack your child, thinking ahead a few years? If he thinks it’s not damaging and was brought up this way? Your dd is too young so far for you to have seen how he parents a challenging toddler/young child.

You know its a question of when not if... so just dont give him any unsupervised contact.

If for any reason either touch your child or yoyr nieces in your presence i'd very calmly give them a full belt in the face and ask how they like it.

Bastards.

Like others, I'm baffled as to why you choose to breed with this man.

Have you been present when your nieces have been hit? What did you do? Start stepping in now to protect them. That will show violent GF that you’re not going to stand for it. If he starts arguing with you, you leave.

Your DP sounds a massive problem. I’d be tempted to show him this thread. No one hits our children - ever. I can’t believe everyone is tip-toeing around the GF over this! It’s outrageous!

Hi DP,

Either you and your father agree not to physically assault my child or I’m leaving you and neither of you will ever see him/her again.

Lots of love,

OP

@Newparent101
Haven't read the thread yet, but my first thought is "where do you live?" because as I understand it, smacking a child is considered to be child abuse in the UK, and Germans are famous for rigidly sticking to the rules.
I would go along the logical route from this and tell your DH (who presumably speaks fluent German) that he needs to sit down with his parents and explain the legal position that if they hit your child not only could they be prosecuted but you might also come under scrutiny for leaving the child with someone who has a track record for "abuse". I know it sounds a bit far fetched, and the fact that you don't agree with it should be enough, but t since it obviously isn't..... Then explain that if he can't accept that this is the way things are in the 21st century, then his access to his DGC is going to be severely restricted.

He sounds vile, and yea the outcome of a confrontation if he DID ever smack would be HIM cutting you all off. Is this emotional and physical abuser worth having in your life??

Your husband is the main issue however, he is your child's protector along with you, and he's the weak point. It's unreasonable that he's arguing FOR smacking, even when he has his innocent 4 month old before his eyes, he can see a future for her that she'd get a wallop from her grandad and that'd ok?

Smack him back, the old twat!

Don’t allow him to be alone with your children, if you’re at all concerned about this.
Which i absolutely would, as well.
He needs to keep his hands to himself.

How to prevent? They don´t see them. That´s 100% foolproof.

When I was 10 & my brother just 2yrs old he touched our granddads tv. Granddad whacked him across the back with a garden cane. It happened so fast I couldn't prevent it.

Naturally he burst into tears & had a huge mark right across his back. Mum was upstairs so I picked him up & took him to her. I was so so angry & was shouting at her that she had to tell her Dad he wasn't allowed to do that.

She did nothing at all & that was the day I lost trust in her. She wasn't someone who would protect any of us against him. I can only assume she was too scared to do or say anything.

It's illegal in Germany, so being German is no excuse. In 2000, the German Civil Code (§ 1631 BGB) was amended to state: "Children have the right to a non-violent upbringing. Corporal punishment, psychological injuries and other humiliating measures are prohibited".

If, and it’s a big if, a child is to be smacked then it should only be by the parent concerned, at the time and for something very serious. ie running out into the road after being told not to.

Never by others.

Looking back on our own parenting I think we saw the occasional slap as a mark of shortcomings, frustrations, lack of skills, weakness. Not something we were proud of, but it happened, almost always for something serious. Not something that I can really justify years on.

It can be hard to understand different parenting methods as a grandparent - ask my brother. He finds his daughters gentle parenting hard to fathom with an ever wayward 6 year old.

But there are lines in the sand, the parents say has to come first. If as a grandparent you disagree then discuss. (At the real end of the line there are social services and the police but that really is pressing the nuclear button.)

I think he needs to be told hard and often that his methods are not acceptable. And that there will be consequences.

YABU for choosing to have a baby with a man who you know thinks hitting small children is appropriate. What were you thinking?

I wouldn’t ever leave DC in same room as GP without my presence.

This is complicated by you being split across multiple countries.
Do you only ever see him in Germany? What's the law on hitting/smacking children there?

If it was here, I'd just call the police before it even happened. Report that he smacks the neices. It's not on, especially given a parent has explicitly told him not to.

Tbh, I think knowing he's likely to smack them you'd be complicit in this if you left her alone with him at any point.
Would you leave her alone with any unrelated person that was likely to smack her?

Good shout re counselling with your DH. Even if you start together to resolve the issue, then it's realised he needs individual counselling.

Sounds very much like the dad and gf have a relationship based on fear aswell. That's why dad wont say anything. GF also uses manipulation by not speaking to DIL. Toxic man. Can't see this ending well, sorry.

Ok, so looked it up and it seems it is illegal in Germany.

I wouldn't care if it was interfering. There are children here being abused. Who may then also grow up thinking this is OK. He may hit your own child. Report to the police (anonymously if you need to) and end the cycle

https://endcorporalpunishment.org/

Prohibition of corporal punishment
Home
Corporal punishment is prohibited in the home. In 2000, article 1631(2) of the Civil Code was amended
by the Act to Prohibit Violence in the Upbringing of the Child to state: “Children have the right to a non-
violent upbringing. Corporal punishment, psychological injuries and other humiliating measures are
prohibited.” German childcare law was amended to place a duty on authorities to “promote ways in
which families can resolve conflict without resort to force”. Article 16(1) of the Social Welfare Code Book

)on offences relating to bodily harm (arts. 223ff).

You use a translating app on your phone and make it clear that it is not your happen

i would also never ever leave the child there on its own

Your DH and FIL have made it clear that they do not agree with you and explicitly will not observe your rules.

So you have no choice but to never leave your Dc alone with this man or even closer to him than you.

His determination to hit small children sounds disturbing.

It's not illegal in England. It is in Scotland and Wales though so if OP is in one of those places it's definitely illegal.

Never let your child see them without you present. Never. But to be honest, I would be more worried about your dp’s approach to snacking-you need to find a way of protecting your child from him too.

or little boys

YANBU. Does your SIL know he's smacking her children again, or does he only do it when she's not there? I'd mention it to her.