To think women should think more carefully about giving children father's last name?

[Mrsnothingthanks]

This.
In light of the case recently where a (male) judge said a child whose father was found to be a rapist still had to keep his last name until she was 18 (or father consented to name change).
I married young first time around and was incredibly naive - one of my biggest regrets is giving my sons ex-husband's last name alone.
I am now remarried and Ms HisName-My Name, my husband is Mr HisName-MyName, and our daughter is Miss HisName-MyName.
So much happier with this 😀

I am so pleased to read this thread-it’s actually made my day. I’ve been on Mumsnet a long time, and there was a time that I felt like a lone voice when I advocated for women not changing their names on marriage and children having their mother’s name or being hyphenated. And answering the “what happens in the next generation” question , and the belief that men’s last names are always more attractive and easier to spell. And the point that somehow men’s last names are their own but women’s are their father’s. But there are loads of people on this thread making those points. I’m so happy!

Wish I had a cut and paste saved for these threads. The whole ‘you need to have the same name as your kids to identify as a family’ always confounds me. If that’s what you need, you are really stumbling in the wilderness. I didn’t change my name on marriage. DH certainly didn’t expect me to and indeed if I suggested it would not have married me, as I wouldn’t have been the person he thought I was.

When kids came, we solved the issue by making up a new name using the letters of both our surnames. All the kids have the same surname. To blow a lot of minds, we’ve all always been able to identify as a family. The government has always seemed to know who we all are and relationships to each other😁, and no one else in life has struggled with the concept. The kids were always sure who their parents were and who their family consisted of, and no teachers or friends struggled with this either. We had zero issues with stuff people throw out as to why this ‘couldn’t work’. As adults we have asked them if they would have changed this given the choice looking back and not one would. They all love their surname, love that it is unique to them, but also love that it connects them. That was the one thing they said they would have hated, having different surnames to each other.

Yep! Also the line that goes mothers know that the kids are theirs but fathers can’t be sure so they need the kid to have their name to reassure them…..

I am not sure why it's "confounding" you. Great you made up a new name, I have no interest in doing that. No flipping way would I ever consider doing that, so that's not a universal solution.

Having the same family name as a family made MY life a lot easier. So what? Travelling is a big one in term of ease.

@CurlewKate I'm pleased. It is lovely to know we stand together ❤️

I think babies should be given their mother’s surname - that may be the same as the father as well, or not

Indeed, but you haven't addressed what happens with the subsequent generations. I'll illustrate to make it easier for you, Simon. For the purposes of the illustration, the letters below represent a full surname.

A couple both have double barrel surnames. Person 1's surname is A-B. They marry Person 2, with a surname C-D. They're zealots, so give their child surname A-B-C-D.

The child grows up, marries a person with a double barrel name, E-F.

A-B-C-D and E-F have a child. What do you think typically happens at this stage?

Not sure having a different name would cause any issues travelling that couldn’t be cleared up by showing a birth certificate.

Why take his name, rather than him taking yours though, if it has to be either/or (which it doesn’t)?

Surely, all having a new name or all called the mother/wife’s name, or double-barrelling would all be fine for travelling and preferable to taking a man’s name?

preferable to taking a man’s name?
Preferable for who? YOU?
You can't argue that women should have the freedom to do whatever and in the same sentence tell us that we MUST do it your way, you are just as bad as "the patriarchy" 😂

I don't want an invented name, I don't care what people call themselves, but that's not for me.

Double-barreling only works when you have short name.

We do have the choice, what we don't need is people telling us what we have to do because they dont' agree with our choices.

Names would likely be chopped in half or favourite chosen I would have thought, which is fine and similar to what happens to names over time anyway.

Berg was taken off the end of Jewish sounding names after the war for instance and names are often changed to anglicise them or due to spelling drift or preference.

Names don’t necessarily remain static even if using traditional lineage method, so this is a straw man argument for sticking with the current method

The conventional method is outdated and sexist and it’s long overdue being called out.

You are aware that countries like Spain have been doing this for generations? How many Spanish people have you met who have four word surnames? I don’t need anything making easier as its an incredibly easy and common thing amongst millions of people.

The conventional approach is not legally mandated. People are free to do as they please.

Some will choose continue, others will do something different. Each to their own.

You're repeating a point for the 3rd time, and avoiding answering the question again.

It isn’t my fault you’re unable to understand a basic concept that has been the norm for hundreds of years, nor is it my fault that you chose to ignore my very easy to understand explanation.

I know one couple where the man changed his name. He had a very common name (like Smith) and didn’t have a great relationship with his family IIRC. Plus his wife really loved her name so he took hers. His parents were unhappy but there were issues before in the relationship.

Lmao. Sure

exactly

what's the problem when people have the CHOICE, and can even invent completely random name.

What else than freedom of choice can we ask for?

Sadly what some people want is for things to be done THEIR WAY. And then they blame "the patriarchy". Oh the irony..

Why do Mumsnetters seem to care so much what other people do about their surnames?! I really don’t understand how the surnames people give their children or choose for themselves affect complete strangers. It’s like people have this idea that there’s a “one true way” and everyone needs to be convinced of that.

I think we get rid of all this ‘her name, his name’ and have people/kids take the COOLER name. If my grandmother had had that option I’d be a Wildblood and my husband an Arrowsmith instead of Smith and Brown (not real names but ours are as common/boring). That would be fun.

Otherwise we just end up with more and more Jones/Williams/Green/Johnson and fewer Miracle/Gotobed/ Wildblood/Twelvetrees.

Why do you assume it’s automatic? I put a lot of thought into it before deciding to use DP’s surname.

Well, surname and title choices do impact on other people. They signal things about us, which are the whole point of them, and that doesn't happen in a vacuum. If someone wants to use a particular surname and/or title and have it understood as meaning certain things, they're reliant on enough of the rest of the population to acknowledge that. Otherwise they don't get their choice.

So for example there are people on this thread who've talked about how they like being seen as a family with the same surname. But in order for that to happen, other people have to recognise what they're doing and enough others also have to do the same for it to keep meaning that.

Obviously people may or may not care about that, which is personal preference. But it's a fact that the surnames people use for themselves and their children do indeed impact on complete strangers.

No problem with freedom of choice, but surely it should be informed choice?

Several previous posters say they would have made a different choice having understood the implications.

I wonder how many girls and young women understand the prevalence of family break ups. Almost half of first-born children don’t live with both birth parents by the time they’re a teen. I’d hazard a guess they’re not mostly living with their fathers, yet most will have their father’s surname and many won’t receive adequate child support.

We have to teach our children, especially our girls, to understand the social, financial and cultural implications of the decisions they make, so that they are able to make informed choices and change the conventions which no longer serve them.

Trying again for those who are either too stupid or just too wilfully ignorant to understand what should be a fairly simple concept. If Ademar Ferreira Dos Reis marries Ivone Rocha Sousa their daughter Isaura would take the name Isaura Ferreira Rocha and their son would be Ernesto Ferreira Rocha.

If Isaura Ferreira Rocha then marries Abelardo Siqueira de Moraes then their daughter Luisa takes the name Luisa Siqueira de Ferreira

This. We all chose (kids included) to take the surname my husband brought to the table because it really was the cooler name. My daughter has already said she won't change her name if she gets married as she loves her surname and she will pass it down to her kids. We did contemplate a db name but both our surnames were ridiculously wordy, it really didn't flow nicely and it would take a while to write out. If me and my husband split I'd probably keep my current name as I really like it. I imagine people will sneer at my choice and put it down to patriarchy but it was our family decision and it works for us.

Though I'm contemplating changing all of ours to Wildblood because that is a good name.

What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. 😅