To think all schools should teach children the old traditional hymns

[Staringintothevoid616]

Just switching between channels and Songs of Praise came on. It was a run down of the most popular school hymns.complete with recorders It brought back many memories and how important communal singing is. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, everyone should know the most popular hymns as a way of uniting society.

I don't see the difference. You are still immersing children in religion regardless, exactly the same as the people stood on the football terraces singing "those songs" were once immersed in it as children.

To be blunt - the football fans didn't grow up singing sectarian nonsense in school, they grew up singing hymns.

The only reason Christianity exists today is because it was weaponised it’s in every church IHS In Hoc Signo - in this sign we conquer. Islam was dreamed up by some dude dehydrated and starving in a cave and its rules devised to conquer countries to prepare a trade route to the Mediterranean. The whole reason Jesus got where he did is the Jews wanted to get rid of the Romans.

But religion can also be used as a unifying force. In fact the unifying force is part of its weaponisation- Religion is a very clever mechanism - prob why nearly all societies have one.

Certainly, just like Morning Has Broken, though that became a very famous Pop song!

I grew up singing hymns, never been to a football match though, correlation doesn’t equal causation😀

Still waiting for you to answer when society wasn't divisive

I'm still waiting for an answer as to why communal singing can't be folk songs or iconic pop songs. Not holding my breath though, I want to live.

Indeed not, however I just refer back to what I said about there being no such thing as a religious child.

If you grow up with no religious identity, it's highly unlikely you are going to be a religious bigot as an adult.

The only reason there are catholics chanting sectarian shite and protestants chanting sectarian shite is because someone, at some point, told them they belong to a religious group. Funnily enough, you don't see religiously bigoted chanting on football terraces where neither club's support has any religious affiliation or background, so again, no, correlation does not equal causation in every single instance, but it's clear religion is absolutely the driving factor in some specific cases.

the sort who doesn't want our sacred music used to control people...... not sure why you are being sarky about my answer? You asked for an opinion and I gave you mine.

So we look back with nostalgia for hymns from our childhood and our children will look back with nostalgia for the songs from their childhood. Luckily for them these won’t be about god or Jesus or sins etc. If that’s what you want for your own children then take them to church where they can experience communal hymn singing or even teach them yourself.

and yet you STILL want children to be taught christian hymns?

It's all a bit waiting for Godot

I have a child at primary and they do a lot of singing... alot! The choir is very popular...my favourite song so far is the power in me... Sung by years 1-4 to year 6..listen to the words...it make you cry. It's so powerful and had a huge impact. It's the singing that matters here

Great. Point is “Lord god” didn’t make them all. Big bang did.

That's so depressing. I spent ages cutting down my three-times-as-long-as-that-originally ramblings myself to try to not have too much of a wall of text so it would actually get read. Waste of time then, although this thread that could have been interesting seems to have gone the way of "we know what you're really thinking" anyway.

What ‘important events’ do you think we should be singing hymns at? It might improve church weddings if more people knew the tunes. Carol concerts are obviously a thing anyway. But I’m struggling to understand what you’re imagining in terms of non-religious community events that could include regular hymn-singing.

What would be nice is if we embraced the future.

Well I'm pretty sure a few people have said it can be both. That's my view - have loads of songs from lots of different places including some hymns. But then I'm influenced by having sung them for years and yet somehow still ended up as an atheist. I'd rather have 10% of the best hymns than none, but I'd be open to all sorts of other songs from other cultures and traditions being in there too. I see that as empowering for people, to see a wide range, and for kids to understand clearly that religions put all sorts of rules into songs and art but those rules have no power over us. I don't actually want kids to grow up thinking they 'belong' to one particular group or another, I'd far rather they grow up feeling free to pick and choose the music and art that they enjoy, or that moves or comforts them, from wherever they like. Part of that IMO is exposing them to all of it and taking away the idea that they can only sing or look at or read about things that belong to "their" religion, so they have to join that religion first.

I think the majority is saying no.

The vast majority actually are Christian though!
We are a Christian country.

Oh dear another christian with their head in the sand. Christians were in the minority in the last census and its far far lower if you look at people who actually actively attend church.

At present most people think the c of e at least only has about 20 years left, very few children are being raised Christian now in the UK.

We are a culturally Christian society, the idea is that all kinds know the same songs. When I was a kid, any child would be able to sing All things Bright and beautiful etc

We are not culturally Christian!

Right now i bet more 7 year olds can sing Golden or Soda pop than All Things Bright and Beautiful.

There are loads of songs all the kids know, and they likely are not religious songs.

I meant in regards to OP' answering questions

The Beatles song Let it Be does contain the lines 'when I find myself in times of trouble. Mother Mary comes to me'...so a bit religious there.
I loved singing hymns at school, and playing the descants on the recorder.
Like PPs have said, I sang the words without thinking much about the meaning, it was the melodies I loved. I am not religious, but I wouldn't have found it offensive for my kids to have sung hymns at school.
As it was, on the rare occasions they sang anything at school, it was pop songs which were not well pitched for them, and usually with terrible backing tracks.
But it's a sign of the times that few schools have teachers who play piano and are confident to deliver music.
But that's a whole other argument!

No, it's not the reason most societies have religions.
Human beings are curious. They want to understand their lives and their purpose. They wanted explanations for the seasons and nature, for life and death. In the days before science religion provided some answers to the big questions of where we came from and why. It also gave comfort and meaning to people who lived short, often brutal and miserable lives.
Its functionality as a means of social control was then harnessed by the rulers of the societies, who over time have added increasingly complex rules, attributing them to a divine being so they couldn't be questioned.
If it has a unifying effect it's only the unity of a group all corralled into obeying a certain set of rules.

OP has stated numerous times she isnt a Christian so why are so fixated on some random numbers being linked to the Bible. You do sound deranged, though I imagine you are congratulating yourself on your Columbo like powers of deduction.

Mother Mary is Paul's mum.