To think all schools should teach children the old traditional hymns

[Staringintothevoid616]

Just switching between channels and Songs of Praise came on. It was a run down of the most popular school hymns.complete with recorders It brought back many memories and how important communal singing is. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, everyone should know the most popular hymns as a way of uniting society.

I absolutely hated singing hymns in school, I’m glad I don’t have to do it at work as an adult!

There are so many more inclusive songs that we do have to sing, so I didn’t escape entirely.

But that Christianity changed quite a lot over those centuries, didn't it? Even today, different denominations of Christianity have different hymns that they favour. Even Christmas carol choices can vary quite a lot.

I absolutely agree that communal singing and music as part of daily life is great for children. I also love that DC's school sing many of the "Come and Praise" hymns that I sang as a kid. But I'd also understand if they were singing secular songs. Singing British folk songs in school would be lovely, actually, and at least as "traditional" as hymns.

Without wishing to deny anything you feel (and everything we know) about historical ✝️ abuses, isn't it going a bit far to add the use of gas chambers to the crimes and misdemeanours of certain religious orders?

Of course it’s forcing Christianity - it’s literally forcing children to sing “The Lord God made them all” - fine if that’s their belief, not so much if they’re an atheist.

The only time in the last 30 years of multiple times a week church attendance that I’ve come across all things bright and beautiful was a funeral of a very elderly person. In fifty years it’ll probably be completely and utterly irrelevant.

You’re just being nostalgic over things that remind you of your own childhood. No reason they should matter to today’s children.

Most schools no longer have daily assemblies but even those who do they don't always include singing. There is already so much expected of schools that parents could take responsibility for.

Time for a revival for Rambling Sid Rumpo!

I don’t think we should be forcing religion on anyone

I'm surprised by the people saying it's offensive to sing songs where you don't believe the lyrics. We sang songs from lots of different cultures and traditions at school (very mixed primary in East London) and I don't think anyone was offended. It was nice for different children to share songs from their cultural/religious background.

Absolutely none of us were farmers but we weren't offended by having to sing harvest songs either.

Hymns really aren't relevant to many any more and those children who go to a traditional church will still presumably still be involved in singing them.

They have huge emotional relevance for me (though I'm a life long atheist) because of my long ago school experiences, but I don't see the need to impose that on the younger generation.

At the school where I work they learn modern songs which contain moral and personal values that they can relate to. As a child I never understood half of what the hymns I learnt were about - just that they related to God / Jesus.

In primary school why not traditional kids songs without any religious affiliation? We have plenty of nursery rhymes or for older kids songs like She’ll be coming round the mountain, BINGO, I know an old lady who swallowed a fly, Yankee Doodle, This old man, There’s an hole in my bucket etc. These are more fun than a dreary old hymn and lots can be sung in a round or you can get faster each verse or change the verses so more learning about musical concepts to be had. For secondary age there is a whole wealth of British music to choose from to get kids singing to from all sorts of genres eg: The Beatles, Queen, Elton John, Shirley Bassey, David Bowie through to The Spice Girls, Oasis, Adele etc. Again, much more fun and representative of UK culture to be singing a range of songs from UK culture than hymns!

What are those benefits?

Scarborough Fayre and The Skye Boat Song immediately spring to mind. There are countless to choose from with just as much tradition and history as any hymn.

Religion is completely irrelevant to many people’s lives now and has no place in state schools. Those who want hymns can find them in churches.

Plus the music was beautiful and the words lovely

I mean - Cauliflower Fluffy doesn't quite compare to We Plough the Fields and Scatter either!

There are so many more important things to than the words to all things bright and beautiful!! Ffs!

Britain is an historically Christian country. Now it is culturally a multi faith/secular society.

Times change OP. It's best to change with it rather than impose the past.

By the way, 616 is a telling number to choose for your user name. Wasn't that the forerunner of 666 in the Bible?

YANBU. Unfortunately we are losing all of these shared cultural markers and becoming a more divided, mistrustful and isolated 'society' as a result.

But you'll be torn apart on here.

I'm old enough to remember 'Singing Together' at Primary School. Happy to have a reminisce if anyone else does. We learnt songs from all over the world, courtesy of Johnny Morris on the radio. I loved it. It was such a joyful part of the school day.

At primary school we spent an inordinate amount of time sitting at our little desks, singing along with schools’ programmes on the radio.
Lillibulero, An English Country Garden, The Oak and the Ash, The Rakes of Mallow; all those wonderful old songs.
Add to that a heavy investment in all manner of hymns (with an emphasis on wresting England back from the evil Reformation) and it’s a wonder we didn't all turn out to be opera singers.

As part of a mixed selection of songs from a whole variety of genres and faiths this sounds good, I think it’s fine to expose children to a variety of music.

OP seems to be advocating solely for children learning school hymns from the Christian faith, which is not the same thing.

Torn on this, but ultimately no.

It’s important to have a canon, and our heritage is Christian so if you try to jettison that you lose a lot.

But ultimately singing hymns is worship and compelling or expecting worship is wrong.

So? That strengthened things how (outside of knowing the words when made to sing them in school)?

What do you mean, ‘Go back to that’? 😤

We aren’t a culturally Christian country at all. We used to be, not anymore. We are now a country of many faiths and increasingly none.
Your hymns are very much a thing of the 80s and should stay there.

Yes, like all religions Christianity changed over the years - I’m not sure what that has to do with singing hymns though, there are some core hymns across all denominations though

the added advantage of hymns is that they are often used at important national events, eg remembrance services, royal weddings, state funerals etc

what traditional folk songs are you thinking of?

What power is that then?

And why does it come specifically from hymns rather than other songs?