To think all schools should teach children the old traditional hymns

[Staringintothevoid616]

Just switching between channels and Songs of Praise came on. It was a run down of the most popular school hymns.complete with recorders It brought back many memories and how important communal singing is. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, everyone should know the most popular hymns as a way of uniting society.

The fact you believe that is bonkers to me.

She hasn't come back to provide any proof of this. Presumably because she can't.

And even more unlikely due to the fact they're....you know, hymns!

I've lost count of the amount of cars driving round town, blasting out Abide With Me.

Oh wait, no I haven't.

That'll be zero.

No.

You really don't need to go that far away, or even examine parts of the world where the predominant religion is something other than Christianity.

We have a perfectly good recent history of Sectarian prejudice, discrimination, hate, and violence in the UK. It's still ongoing. It is a significant part of the reason why I chose to completely eschew religion as a child. It wasn't just an absence of belief, it was the fact that even as a child I was disgusted by the nonsense of Sectarianism.

Well, at least you’re willing to discuss, thank you

Maybe we should question why traditional songs are alienating by mentioning something that has been culturally important to almost ever aspect of this country for well over 1500 years, not just the UK but near enough the whole continent. A lot of songs have questionable content. But then with hymns it could be useful as a valid learning point linked to history, they also have far more positive messages. the symbolism in them links to our art, in fact hymns are art. They form important parts of our culture.

There are many studies setting out the importance of community singing, hymns are an established set of songs that can’t be inserted in any situation so people can sing them in many settings throughout their life. I can sing a song about Robin Hood, I don’t need to believe it’s factually correct,

But we all know the real answer is 42 😀

No it really doesn't. If you are unable to see the rot in the sentiment of that verse then you are alone because most churches leave that bit out now. Bit of bad messaging that isn't on brand.

I went to a community event with my grandad dad and uncles in the 80s. We had singing and you're right OP, it absolutely brought the community together in tough times.
We sang The Red Flag and the women sang Bread and Roses. Perhaps those songs should be compulsory in schools? They were indeed uplifting and made a powerful impression on me at a young age.

I agree with you, but in the light of OP's seeming inability to understand that religion is divisive and has been weaponised as a tool of oppression, I thought it best to provide examples that were really, really, really obvious.

No. I'm not suggesting that we erase our history or deny the hugely significant role that Christianity has played in shaping our culture. I'm simply suggesting that we should acknowledge that society has evolved and changed over time.

I don't believe it's necessary or appropriate in this day and age for aspects of public life to include Christian hymns and prayers, given that only a very tiny percentage of the population are now practising Christians. It's anachronistic and alienating for many.

I'm not saying that we should take religion out of private events such as weddings or funerals etc. People can of course mark their life events in whatever way they see fit. But in public life, I think we should adopt a more secular approach.

What are 'culturally relevant songs'?

OP absolutely does understand that religion is divisive. That is exactly what she wants - to weaponise Christianity.

Agreed.

It’s very important to cherish this cultural treasure.
Nobody bats an eyelid that we in Ireland are very strong in this regard (for obvious historical reasons) and it’s never imputed to some form of racism or to any xenophobia, though this society is a multi-cultural one now. Folk history is open to all to celebrate!

No doubt GB is on some level weighed down with the legacy of its colonial history, and revelling in ‘Englishness’ cannot but be misunderstood, and usually wilfully.
But twattish neo-Nazis (as pictured elsewhere in the thread) are nothing whatever to do with culture, and it’s they who threaten every bit of it, not Johnny Foreigner, by casting a pall of guilt or discomfort-by-association over the whole wonderful territory of songs and lore.
( I think its time GB patriots took on these other ‘patriots’, and had a quizz to the death about British cultural (incl religious) traditions, songs, and ancient rituals. They'd be TKO’d in five minutes!)

Ok, so there can be learning about old songs (and their potential flaws, dated aspects) - this happens. People can learn about them at church, libraries, museums, clubs, on TV, on line, in schools etc.

Community singing happens across the nation every week. At all the above and also the rugby, football, Scouts, choirs, schools etc etc.

What more are you wanting?

We had to sing Jerusalem at the WI. It was excruciating. One evening I found a lady actually hiding in the loo as she hated public singing so much. Some old hymns are nice, some are ghastly, some have anachronistic, worrying words but they all reek of religion and so I don't think they gave any place in non faith schools.

She still hasn't told us about the uplifting communal singing events she's taken her children to.

I suppose if you grow up in certain parts of the UK it's going to feel far more relevant that Iraq or Afghanistan, but the whole of the UK is not afflicted to the same degree so it's perfectly understandable some people will be largely oblivious to it.

On this subject though, I'd love to know what the OP would think stood at certain Scottish football grounds when the song book is opened up and the "communal singing" begins. Those people signing certainly claim they are united and part of a community, and if you listen to what they are actually singing then it's undeniably about religion. I think you'd struggle to mount an argument that it's in any way healthy or uplifting though.

Ah, you know what I’m thinking!!!!! Sorry about anything you stumble across, although tbh for the most part you’ll be staring into the void!!!!

I’ve answered the question upthread.

Yes. I really wish the Church would own its messaging and not be so mealy mouthed. It would prob be even more popular- although attendance is consistently growing.

You haven't answered the question of why it has to be Christian religious songs. Many other folk songs have been suggested to you, including some that have ancient roots. Why are these not suitable in your opinion?

This is aside from the fact that culture changes, and therefore so do the songs that bring people together. I mean, one might consider adding football anthems to the list, although there are limits to the number of renditions of 'Three Lions' that I can personally tolerate. But why not classic pop songs that have stood the test of time for 40+ years? Again, there are many.

Again, understood - but one has to do what is necessary to steer clear of the mods.

If you’re talking about Protestantism v Catholicism - I doubt it is pleasant, but I’m not suggesting year 3 learn those songs. Maybe that’s why we should stick to hymns

Agreed, I don't know what you're thinking.

I was talking about the weakening of the argument not your mind.

Hitler youth.

But. Why. Not. Folk. Songs.