My teenager just called me a f£&ing bitch

[Bookishworm]

Things are not good in the family as my husband and I have separated. My son has always been rude so this isn’t new behaviour but tonight his behaviour was particularly bad.

When he came home he sat on the stairs on his phone - due him being with his Dad this week I asked him if everything was okay and he said yes fine then said I hate you by the way. I told him to speak to me properly then he called me a “dribbler” multiple times. Things were tense and later in the evening when we were talking about him seeing his grandparents tomorrow (they haven’t seen him for a while) he called me a fucking bitch 😔 I said don’t you dare call me that etc.

I’ve only recently got back from a holiday with him which wasn’t cheap and he had a lot of treats. He could be lovely and affectionate one minute then if I made a mistake abroad like not being sure of where something is he would call me a dumb ass and stupid or say he was the adult not me.

His rudeness and disrespect is extremely difficult to deal with. He had ADHD and ASD, I also suspect ODD. I do correct him but he smirks and doesn’t seem to care.

He can be very loving and affectionate too but also extremely rude.

Which you would be.

OK let’s have a look at this. He has been modelled (which is more effective than saying it) that calling you a fucking bitch is acceptable and right. And it was used against you whenever your ex wanted to signal negative emotions. So your son, because he was taught to do it, called you a fucking bitch because he was feeling negative emotions.

A good parenting expert will pick apart the stages of this. First, antecedents. If he is tired, ill, hungry, upset or anything like that, no emotive conversations. Leave it to a neutral time.

Then, how you communicate. You were essentially saying, “see more of my parents, and you should feel guilty if you don’t”. You feel guilty and you were trying to make him feel guilty. Because that’s probably been an effective way to try to get your needs met in a house that was abusive. You can’t be assertive, you have to be passive aggressive. But it is the worst way to communicate with him and he will get avoidant of the feelings it causes in him. And again, what has he been trained to do when upset? Call you a fucking bitch.

And finding a new way. You need to work out how to ask for things, communicate things and listen to things without blame, guilt or me-railing. And he will have to learn that calling you names isn’t the only way to have his needs met.

He doesn’t know why you did that because for 13 years you accepted it. ‘Fucking bitch’ is just as much a normal phrase to him as ‘cup of tea’ is to a person in a healthy household.

The people telling you how dreadful it is and how you can’t put up with it don’t understand that to him, there’s nothing wrong with it because the two most important people in his life parented him that way. You have to kindly, empathetically, and calmly, spend the next 13 years attempting to retrain him.

You won’t be able to do it without support. Please please read, learn, take every parenting course you can, get therapy, everything.

Totally agree.

I agree with @ADHDwifeHP
it is very ‘normal’ for audhd people to seek a reaction from behaviour whether negative or positive because there is a dopamine hit from the reaction, also whether negative or positive.
plus, as you say @Bookishworm he is processing a lot and sometimes this processing can take a lot longer and is not linear where there’s been such a big life change plus what sounds like family trauma for a long time prior to the split.
this would be a lot for kids who are nt too.
if you can access nd and trauma informed support this is probably the best route to start with as well as having frank and open conversations with your son who is old enough to understand a lot of this now, if presented in a way that makes sense to him.
he is acting out and wants a reaction and wants to feel safe.
if you instigated the split perhaps he is also subconsciously testing to see whether he is safe with you or if you are going to ask him to leave too.
it sounds hard but also know that kids are often harshest to the caregiver who they feel safest with.
sending hugs

I couldn’t disagree more with the “I’d tan his arse” comments.

A nearly 14 year old, in puberty, will generally be stronger than his mother, in a few years’ time he will be bigger as well. He probably won’t have realised that he’s stronger than her, but he will if she decides to hit him and he retaliates.

Then the OP will end up in a situation where her angry, unhappy son knows he’s physically dominant and there’s no dad in the house to act as a deterrent.

Im actually going through court with this ,dad letting son 13,disrespect me the way does.
We ve been split a long time. And I'm out of ideas as son runs to dad, and has no stable life there. It's so hurtful sorry your going g through this too x

I do wonder what all the cuddly understandings suggestors think will happen the first time this bloke encounters someone in the wild who doesn't give the tiniest shyt what his daddy was like. He needs a shock from someone who loves him before someone who doesn't doles it out.

I don’t necessarily disagree, I am a strict parent. What are your suggestions though re “a shock from someone who loves him”?

Some posters have suggested the OP hits him (which I wouldn’t agree with) but the outcome there is the teen boy realises he’s stronger than his mum, physically hurts her and then the power dynamic shifts in the wrong direction when he realises he is the strongest in the house.

The chances of this poor boy becoming an adult abuser are reduced with love, understanding, firm boundaries, empathy (and yes consequences). They are increased with shocks, punishments and banishing to dad’s.

Strangers might not care about adverse childhood events in this boy’s life but they are the best indicator of who he will grow up to be without support. The only person who had no choice whatsoever about his upbringing was the boy. Everyone else had some iota of choice, however slim. He had none. Blaming him for being exactly the 13 yo boy they raised him to be is astonishingly naive and unkind.

This kid is hurt, abused, witnessed abuse and is suffering now because of the choices adults made. Understanding that is the least any of us should be doing.

Why would a kid whose got adhd and had had an abusive upbringing need a shock of all things? Do you think you can shock the anger or the adhd out of him? He needs calm, firm consistent parenting and help dealing with his emotions and the continuing emotional abuse from his father.

What sort of shock do you suggest?

I think I would stonewall and go on strike if my child spoke to me like that. I would literally behave as though they were not there (except obviously I wouldn't leave them unattended.) But I wouldn't speak, wouldn't cook or clean, wouldn't take them anywhere, not even to school, would cancel their phone contract and switch off wifi and then when I was ready, or when they actually sounded worried by my behaviour I would speak in a very very quiet voice so they had to lean in to hear me, and say:

'You are not and never have been the adult in this relationship. I am. I am responsible for housing you, feeding you, clothing you, caring for you and caring about you. You have never had to do that for anyone so you have no idea how much self discipline and energy it takes. I do it out of love. But I do not need or choose to ever love someone who treats me like dirt. Yes, you heard right, my love is conditional. It's bullshit that parents need to love children unconditionally, if the child thinks that's an excuse to treat them like shit. I love no one unconditionally who treats me like dirt. I don't have to love or care for people who treat me like dirt and I choose not to. I will do nothing at all for you until you apologise in full. I have made a list of every insult you have thrown at me in the past month, including when I took you on holiday. Look me in the eye and hear them.' Then I'd read out each one to him. Then I'd ask him to apologise for each one by saying 'Sorry I called you X. I know you are not X. I realise calling you X made you feel... I know you are...' and ensure he swaps it out for a positive and genuine, loving phrase. Make him say something like that for every single insult he has hurled at you.

If he doesn't want to, or gets bored or angry, that's okay. Just stonewall him again. Or very quietly, using his name, say to him each of the things he has called you, looking him in the eye and after each one, ask him: 'How would you feel if I said that and really meant it? Your own mother, talking to you as if you were dirt? How would you feel?'

Really women MUST stop young men from thinking this behaviour is okay. If we don't they perpetuate it with their girlfriends and wives. It is our job as mothers to give them an incredibly hard time if they disrespect us.

There will be people on MN who sneer and think this is OTT. But too many young men are sucked into the manosphere and think their bollocks will grow bigger if they treat women like shit and nothing on earth will stop them unless we give them a really hard time about it. Shouting is not giving them a hard time - it just adds fuel to the fire. Being quiet and indifferent and cold and strong and absolutely not backing down until they take full responsibility for everything they have said is the only way. My DC very rarely tried to disrespect me. But they got this treatment at the very first sign. If they called me a name, I would be absolutely silent until they got concerned, then I would look them in the eye and say: 'You are a failure' (or whatever they had tried to say to me). When they looked shocked, because I sounded like i meant it, I'd then say in my normal mum voice: "Weird isn;t it? Bit creepy, hearing someone who you thought loved you talk to you that way. But I am quoting someone. Do you know who?" Etc. Really take the time to not let them wriggle out of being fully aware of a) what they have done and b) the impact it has on the person on the receiving end. Big, strong, unbudgeable boundaries. And yes my love is conditional. Even for my DC. That's the one condition. I don't love anyone who doesn't love me. In my world, love is mutual and I want to teach them that.

The problem with that @Jugendstielis that words are cheap. She did in fact need and choose to ‘love’ someone who chose to speak to her like that for 13 years or more. The boy saw it to be the case every day. Now, we as adults understand that abuse is complex and women get trapped. But you can’t undo over a decade of formative years with a speech and no laundry.

If you want to destroy the relationship with him altogether.

This is not a supportive comment. OP is not “allowing” him speak to her like that. He has come out with hurtful aggressive phrases and she is seeking help on how to tackle it. As you know, ASD and ADHD present differently in every individual, so just because this situation would not happen in your setting doesn’t mean it’s down to a weakness in how OP manages her son.

The best way to react is simply to say um
sorry you feel that way because id never say that about you. I love you and all who you are. I understand you’re upset, hurt, confused and angry but I’ll always be here for you.,then do t react. And repeat as needed.

he’s young. He’s reacting. He’s angry and confused. He doesn’t mean it

OP, is there a male in his life he looks up to who would help? A coach, teacher, grandfather?

He’s been modelled a horrible version of manhood by his dad, is there anyone who could spend some time with him and demonstrate more respectful behaviour toward women? And yes, someone who can also tell him how wrong it is to swear at his mother and call her names.

Having read the thread I agree with what you and others have said about your son’s behaviour being learned behaviour. And I’m not making his behaviour ok by saying this. But another thing to take into consideration with our ND kids is they take their shit times/confusing times and I say confusing because he’s trying to navigate his parents separation. They take situations like this out on the one they trust the most, and that’s clearly you OP. Not excusing it and you do have to put your own boundaries in place. But ultimately he’s grown up watching his dad treat you this way. But you’ve been his constant, the one that’s tired to teach him otherwise, the right way. 14 is a tricky age, his body going through puberty but also ND people are mentally younger and typically take longer to process. I wouldn’t send him off to his dads. I’d carry on putting your boundaries in place and also carry on being his constant. He’ll eventually learn that you’re the one he can trust. Sending you strength. It’s tough being the reliable/default parent

In my son’s case (which is not uncommon in ADHD/ ASD) he is extremely well behaved most of the time and absolutely NEVER acts out at school (he’s a prefect, spends a lot of time supporting other disabled kids, he’s a coach and regular swimmer at his swimming club) or anywhere else except at home with me and my husband because (to paraphrase) it’s his safe space to vent. If we “gave him a shock” it would only serve to undermine our relationship and hurt him more than he already is hurting. It’s just cruel and unhelpful. My husband actually did try this approach (with shouting never hitting) early on and it caused immediate and uncontrollable escalation- he was only 13 at that time but very tall and strong so we knew that wouldn’t work long term and have had lots of professional support to get to a much better place now - he’s 15 and the non violent resistance training (all about parental responses really) has been life changing ❤️

Adhd is a near universal diagnosis for young men with unpleasant behaviours now. If everyone is disordered it's not really a disorder it's a norm that needs to be tackled. Through the instinctive association of nasty consequences.

I’ve read a lot about that now and it sounds excellent, I find shouting etc doesn’t work as he just doesn’t seem to care, he does lack impulse control and is quick to anger, punishing him like a neurotypical child just doesn’t work, that non violent resistance training sounds like it would work to de-escalate the situation. Especially as things are difficult right now at home but his behaviour isn’t necessarily new. I also suspect he has ODD (undiagnosed)

I’m sorry you were spoken to like that. If it were me I would be tiring the Wi-Fi off and confiscating the phone. When he kicks off ignore it and if he says why does dad get to speak to you like that I’d be saying h does not that’s why we are not together. Reaffirm you love him no matter what but that doesn’t mean you will be verbally abused. I worried about this with my son for a while until his dad stopped seeing him, I was aware if we don’t mitigate the lessons they get from their father we set them up to become men like their fathers. It’s hard and unfair you have my sympathy

He's autistic and a teenager. Teens are notoriously stroppy. Autistic kids can be worse as the emotions are less well regulated and he is male growing up around abuse from your ex and has just come back from ex's. He has ADHD and is impulsive. It's perfectly understandable that he's done this. Doesn't make it right but this is a long game and you have to keep working on it.

He was going to be dysregulated when he came back. Not the time to talk to him. (Think how you contributed to the dysregulation/escalation as it makes life better for you both and helps him to learn to regulate his emotions and communicate ) You will need to get him to the point he can say he needs quiet right now could he talk to you later. You need to be able to hear that and respect it. It's difficult. Keep pushing and you will trigger a meltdown. (Possibly displayed by the language he showed )

Sadly, neither is it going to be effective to talk to him while he is angry dysregulated. A couple of hours later is best. Ask him how he thinks you felt? He might not remember though as a brain in full meltdown has disengaged from the rational part and is relying on the emotional part and doesn't make memories just feels and reacts. )(sorry, can't remember how the neurodevelopmental team described it more accurately)

Please don't worry too much. It's going to be tough couple of years but it doesn't mean he is going to turn out shit. Keep talking to him. It's hard work trying to teach them to regulate their emotions.

Ask him what he needs to re regulate when he gets home. He might need an hour on his phone sat in the hall without interrupting. You are aiming to get him to take responsibility for his own emotional regulation but he will need support for a few years yet.

Please don't try to parent him as if he was neurotypical. It won't work. Just makes things more dysregulated. Do reflect and see what goes well and what doesn't. What triggers a meltdown and what prevents. Can you and he spot the signs of a developing meltdown? Do you know how to stop it tripping over into a full blown meltdown? You have to parent the child you have. Back to the good old behaviour is communication. And you have to live them despite the behaviour. They can be really sensitive little flowers in a roaring lion body with surging hormones.

Ask on the sen chat board for advice. Lots of experienced parents of ND kids.

(Single parent of autistic older teens, co parent misogynistic.)

Sorry but I’d have wiped my child clean off their feet if they spoke to me in that way. Disgusting.

Adding:
Praise the good behaviour. Praise him when he tries to self regulate or tries to communicate. Model good ways of communicating. Apologise when you get it wrong. (My kid is now better at this than I am, I still take longer to come out an autistic meltdown and had no guidance on self regulation as a kid/teen it was behave or else and a very dysregulated autistic dad, who had no guidance as a teen as he was orphaned)

Good luck.