To think that society does not require Botox

[MeridaBrave]

I’ve just started a new job and everyone is lovely. It’s a start up and there is a great atmosphere. A younger colleague (she is 28, so only 6 years older than my DD) said she has Botox. I asked why? She said society expects it so she has to. I really struggled to understand (I’m in my 50s and they recruited me for my technical skills).

I kept on saying I didn’t understand why it was required - clearly our employer wouldn’t care. To her it seems so obvious that it was expected by society. Eventually she said social media. I suppose also could be her social circle?

Am I being unreasonable to think that this is insane? I’m also worried about what sort of world we are bringing our daughters up into. What’s the point in feminism and equal opportunity if young women feel Botox is required.

@lastones Yes. Many products used for a fresh skin look aren’t injected. What Botox does is slightly different and posters use the wrong word. They might feel rejuvenated because their imperfections are lessened but it’s not their all over facial skin that’s “fresh”. They feel they have had a refresh - that’s fair enough.

but the young woman with the Botox told the OP! The OP didn't ask.

Yes, the colleague initially said she did. Who knows why?!

However, in the opening para the OP asked why her colleague had Botox. She asked for more info. Then “I kept on saying I didn’t understand why it was required”. “Kept on” being the important words. Then the colleague “eventually said social media”. So - maybe @Illegally18 you should read exactly what the op wrote. She asked repeatedly about Botox and why her colleague had it. It sounded overbearing and intrusive to me.

well maybe the young colleague has learned a lesson there - don’t overshare in the workplace.

@faffadoodledo Yes. And avoid op!

You are not wrong OP, it's terribly sad the brainwashing of all the young people with various cosmetic treatments. They all look the same!

@Ewg9 You are completely and utterly wrong! I suspect very few young women do this. Where on earth do you live? However it’s their choice.

"they all look the same"- a curious assertion considering that if you showed someone photographs of the 70s or 80s or 90s without them knowing what era it was, I bet they would be able to guess exactly what decade it was due in part, to everyone "looking the same".

My nan used to joke with me that all teenagers looked the same whilst when she met up with her friends they too all looked exactly the same with the same short grey perm, tan tights, tweed skirt and flat brown shoes.

Society doesn’t expect it. She wants it, knows it’s a bit daft, and so pins it on societal expectations that don’t exist.

@mistyeveningponder I think that’s an interesting observation. We would all recognise the mini skirt era of the 60s. We are certainly able to define eras by fashion. For some, fashion is now Botox but when it’s a young women, can anyone really look at them and really know? Lip fillers, yes. But then again, only if too extreme. We are back to mini mini skirts again but it’s not universal. A bit like lip fillers! There isn’t really a 2020s look that’s universally adopted. I think since oversized power suit jackets of the 80s, fashion has been less regimented.

You're totally right! each decade had a very specific look but I cant really think that anything fashion wise defines the 2020s look - apart from maybe the cosmetic procedures we are talking about.

I just think the idea that we should be against it purely because "everyone looks the same" is just silly because as I said, my nan's generation all had the exact same haircut, the exact same perm, the exact same clothes etc so looking like your peers has been a defining feature of most previous decades

@mistyeveningponder What’s really good now is that many women are individuals. They can choose how they dress and what make up suits them. No doubt when my grandma bobbed her hair in the 20s it was somewhat scandalous. The older generation didn’t approve. By the time QE1 was a young woman, nearly everyone had shorter hair! We evolve and have different ideas and right now there’s no diktat about how you dress or look. We are better for it.

But some are clones, slug lips, Miss piggy false eyelashes and over bleached hair- not a good look.

@Allseeingallknowing In your opinion. If people like how they look, why not? Their choice and they don’t have to please you! Or indeed anyone else.

It’s the women falling into the trap of doing this and then pressuring other women to do it, that should be better. We are entirely entitled to have an opinion on these choices. I’m sure you realise how human minds work and that by a certain number of people creating this as a new norm, other people will follow suit. It is and will always be a stupid thing to inject poison in your face just to stop wrinkles. Do you really want to live in a society where this is the norm? Why can people just age normally? Now people ageing naturally are the odd ones out.

Cheerleading bad choices is not somehow "better" than asking hard questions. Lazier, yes. More comfortable in the short term yes. But not "better".

"Better" is understanding there are valid reasons why individual women make choices that are bad for society in the long term, and often indeed ultimately bad for themselves as well, and having sympathy for those women, while still recognising that the real goal is not a future where we don't care what other women do even when it's harmful, but a future where those good reasons to make bad choices no longer apply.

I don't know where this weird idea came from the Feminism means we can't criticise anything another woman does, but no, that is not Feminism.

Since the 80s, actually.

@Pancakeorcrepe Is it not the new norm though is it? You would not walk into your local library and be certain the female library staff had all had Botox! Or maybe you mean it’s the norm for the under 30s? Given lowish earnings, it’s not the norm! Or is it the norm to stave off wrinkles when over 60? In reality it’s none of these because it’s not the norm. I think it’s far from it. It’s a subgroup of women who are happy with the results. That’s their choice and doesn’t harm anyone else. The norm is totally overstating the use of Botox and fillers.

I can guarantee that at 44 you are not line free, unless you have a skin disorder that I've not heard of.
Anyway, thats great but I put money on you looking better with it and its preventative so you'll stay 'line free '.

Why do people need to aspire to stay line free? Lines are normal.

It's been great seeing Linda Hamilton looking like herself and not fucked about with. Really refreshing.

I’m 61, beginning to see a few now. At 44, I was absolutely line free. No special treatments, just lucky genetics. When my mum was 75, people thought she was in her early 60s. Bus drivers literally questioned her free pass. 🤷‍♀️ she’s 85 now and looks old but that’s mostly down to dementia. Still has her own teeth, 1 filling, and has no prescription meds whatsoever (refuses to acknowledge the dementia and seek treatment, unfortunately).

Some people are just fortunate.

(Also still have long, blonde, thick hair. Few silvers at the temple, that’s it. Really like them)

I've been at the theatre this evening to a production mainly aimed at women. There were women there from their 20s to their 70s/80s but if I had to guess, I'd say the majority were 50 plus. It was an absolute joy to be in a remote regional theatre and see real, unedited women's faces of all ages. There was a single woman there who stood out like a sore thumb with her stretched, filled, puffed features. I just thought how sad it was that she felt she'd had to do that to what had been a perfectly nice, normal face.

I can guarantee you, I am. What I do have are streaks of grey hair that I haven't dyed. After 2 years, I'm still deciding whether to keep them or go caramel blonde.
My 67 year old mother would probably blow your mind, as she didn't get any lines until about 63/4. My teenager has called dibs on her granny's genes.
Given all that, I'm going to remain jab free as I'm happy with the way I look and will embrace whatever is to come.

Sagging is more ageing than a few lines. I’ve seen 20 year olds with lines in their forehead who still look 20 and 40 year olds with no lines (but other signs of ageing such as sagging, sun damage) who very much look their age. Plus posture and good clothing will get you a long way.