To think that society does not require Botox

[MeridaBrave]

I’ve just started a new job and everyone is lovely. It’s a start up and there is a great atmosphere. A younger colleague (she is 28, so only 6 years older than my DD) said she has Botox. I asked why? She said society expects it so she has to. I really struggled to understand (I’m in my 50s and they recruited me for my technical skills).

I kept on saying I didn’t understand why it was required - clearly our employer wouldn’t care. To her it seems so obvious that it was expected by society. Eventually she said social media. I suppose also could be her social circle?

Am I being unreasonable to think that this is insane? I’m also worried about what sort of world we are bringing our daughters up into. What’s the point in feminism and equal opportunity if young women feel Botox is required.

Botox has done wonders for me, I'm not having anyone judge me for it and having the nerve to hide behind 'feminism' and fake concern. I get it because it's bloody great, I can afford it, I can spend my money on what I want and no one can tell me what to do with my own body.

I love Botox... it takes ten years off me. But I only started using it in my mid-forties. I think it's sad that women in their twenties feel they need it... but many other things make me sad about the young people of today. Difficult times to live in.

I have it for migraine. Have gone from 15 or so days of migraine a month to about 3. Life changing. Wish I’d started it twenty years ago.

‘Mimetic desire’ we want the things we want because other people want them.

.... And I hope you don't drink alcohol which is literally poison infested into your body!!

Never heard that term. But a useful one to consider. The crucial question is - does this make a person happier?

In 45. I keep to a very good skin care routine and I’m hoping for the best but I’m also in perimenopause so it is what it is. My mums friend has been getting tweeks since she was in her mid 30’s. She’s now in her mid 70’s and her facial muscles are paralysed due to Botox. She looks like she’s got Bell’s palsy. Always been a wealthy woman so would get work done whilst holidaying in America or Dubai so would come home with a high end handbag and smooth face. I considered Botox for a deep set forehead line about two years ago but decided not to because of mums friend. It’s a slippery slope. I would probably love the results and it lead to seeing other discrepancies I’d want to sort out. I also work with a lot of under 30’s and they are all on it. Varying excuses, I’ve just had a baby and I don’t look like me, shrieking at frown lines and deliberately trying not to smile because it causes lines. It’s very sad indeed that young girls are thinking like this. They will all look bloody awful by the time they hit 40.

It makes me so sad. The view persisting that women’s worth is in how we look. It starts so young and I’m sure there are ways that I even unwittingly convey it to my daughters through the things I say about how they present themselves. Id love a revolution where women supported one another to stick two fingers to it all.

Why did you 'keep on saying' you didn't understand it was required? She wanted it, for whatever reason, and shouldn't be badgered to provide an acceptable reason to a work colleague.

I'm in my 50's and have never had it, nor do I want it, however I understand that different things are important to different people. I would have just nodded and smiled and told her she looked great. We would both have gone away happy.

I’m 84 so know very little about younger fashion. However, I am at a loss to understand why attractive young women would want to have great fat lips which don’t look natural and spoil themselves.

Yes! This is why my DD’s surgeon said don’t touch the stuff in your twenties; delay as long as possible. (See upthread for story)
it’s madness.
Pressure of whatever sort is trumping common and scientific sense

67 here - I do understand the differing drivers behind why younger or older women choose Botox. When working I used to look at my droopy neck and wonder … but I’ve since decided I’m physically the sum of my life so far and accept my aging gracefully. That’s a lot easier to do when your less obligated to ‘perform’ as part of a workforce. However I still put on full makeup when I emerge into the world as being a redhead (a rapidly fading one) I will never get over having transparent eyelashes!
I can also recall the innocence of youth - but that often put us in harms way some way or another. Do we really know whether Botox, fillers, tattoo ink, whatever we introduce into our bodies might be doing to us?
My one prejudice is neck tattoos - what are they going to look like once they’re in their sixties with a droopy neck like mine?

People place different values on physical appearance. Of course society doesn’t need Botox and it functioned very well for many years without it, but now it’s a thing and some people are terrified of looking old compared to their peers as it’s assumed that most people will have it in many circles.

I never have and neither have most of my close friends. I don’t feel the need, but I do value a bit of a youthful appearance. As luck would have it I have been blessed with good genes and do look a bit younger than my age, but if I didn’t I don’t know what I would do. Maybe I would feel the pressure.

Absolutely this. Botox causes permenant muscle damage (creates fatty deposits within the muscle belly) after as little as 3 uses. I inject it for medical reasons (spasticity/contracture management) and we hold off as long as we can as we know that we only have 3 times of using it completly safely and then the risks ramp up. We do occasionally do more than 3, but only after very careful weighing of pros and cons.
It's absolutely every woman's right to chose if and when to use botox, but I do wish practitioners who inject would state these risks so people can make an informed decision. A friend of mine does injections as an 'aesthetic practitioner' and she didn't even know about the '3 times rule' let alone inform her client of it. My issue is with uninformed and unscrupulous injectors, not those who chose to use it.

Where about on the face do you need to get it for this? My teeth are ruined and my faces aches with clenching and grinding and is love to stop it.

Trust me, everybody else does.

That's a specific phenomenon that can occur with high dose injections that are going deep into a muscle (I've had it done for trapezius issues). It's exceedingly unlikely to be an issue with the tiny doses used in cosmetic procedures.

That said, I would be extremely concerned about having anyone other than a doctor or dentist inject it.

I have mine done at the Maxillofacial department at the hospital on the NHS. I have it in my masseter muscles in 2 places each side and in both temples. It was life changing for me not to be in pain every minute of the day.

I don't really notice / look to see if other women have had work. (Apart from the aforementioned Big Lips etc..)
Not interested in having it for myself. That's my life written on my face, good & bad!
I have wondered about David Beckham when I've seen him in TV ads though.. has he had work? He just looks - a bit odd.. different?

There’s a bit of puffiness isn’t there?

At 44 it is not something that even features on my radar, because I have nice line free, fresh looking skin.
I also believe 40 came with a nice glow, so still feel attractive. I'm not about to spoil that, just because I can afford injections 🤷🏾‍♀️...

It relates to a certain extent to muscle to toxin ratio. Yes the amounts going into the muscles in the face is much smaller, but then so are the muscles. A poster above mentioned their relative ended up with part of their face totally paralysed.

Even if a side effect is felt to be uncommon, patients should be made aware of it so they can make an informed choice. A patient may feel that the perceived benefits make the potential risks worthwhile, but they are rarely even made aware of them.

@Dweetfidilove I feel the same, and I’m 59! Honestly o quite like the look of my face. I’m still recognisable as the same person I was at 25. It helps that my weight has remained fairly steady and I’ve been careful with the sun. But yes, Im quite happy with the way I look. No doubt I’m less
visible, but again, I’m fine with that. And no doubt a 25 year fan of tweakments would be repelled by my fine lines. But that’s fine too!
I’m far more bothered by not being able to sprint like I used to, and losing a bit of flexibility. But as with my face, I don’t expect my knees to perform as they did at 25! Although all things considered I’m still quite a fit old bird!

I'm hoping I'll still be holding out at 59 too, as the 'still recognisable ' bit is so important. I like the face I have. I worry that some of the young women already tweaking will become unrecognisable over time, or just continue being unhappy with whatever face they have then.

For the flexibility, I've recently started yoga and pilates, because I'd started cracking every time I get up. The joys of sitting for hours at a desk as I get older 😊.

Why not have Botox if you want it? My niece started at 23, she’s 28 now and has it about once a year.

I don’t love lines on my face, some might, but if there’s something that stops them, fantastic. No-one is forced into having it.