To think that society does not require Botox

[MeridaBrave]

I’ve just started a new job and everyone is lovely. It’s a start up and there is a great atmosphere. A younger colleague (she is 28, so only 6 years older than my DD) said she has Botox. I asked why? She said society expects it so she has to. I really struggled to understand (I’m in my 50s and they recruited me for my technical skills).

I kept on saying I didn’t understand why it was required - clearly our employer wouldn’t care. To her it seems so obvious that it was expected by society. Eventually she said social media. I suppose also could be her social circle?

Am I being unreasonable to think that this is insane? I’m also worried about what sort of world we are bringing our daughters up into. What’s the point in feminism and equal opportunity if young women feel Botox is required.

Its just an extension of dying your hair or putting make up on.
I like looking after myself, looking nice and fresh and I enjoy putting my make up on nice smooth plump skin. I never think about how other people think about it.
I wonder why people DON'T do it tbh.

Then why are you bleating on about botulism?

I started getting it at 33 (in my 40s now). You wouldn't think I'm the "type" but if I didn't my big spam forehead would be a wrinkled wreck. I like that it makes me look zen when I'm wtfing inside - a professional advantage!

I mean it’s too young but they all ruin their faces young these days. When they look like hell at 40 due to muscle wastage they’ll all stop. And maybe then next generation will change.

Often older women look better than 20 year olds with too much Botox/filler/ slug lips and heavy eyelashes. Leave them to it!

I say that as someone who has had very conservative, sporadic Botox since 43. But I’ve backed away from it currently.

It has other medical uses too... migraines, OAB.
If she wants to use botox to improve her self esteem... thats up to her.
True feminism doesnt bash other women for choices you may not make.

OP, a capitalist society is built on making people believe they need things that they don't. Your colleague believes society expects her to have botox because botox companies pay influencers to make you think it is the norm.
It is very sad.

@blacksax but no one should take issue with anyone doing anything with their body/face that’s legal and medically safe, regardless of whether they consider it sensible or not.
I do think that pressure on women is worse than ever and the definition of female attractiveness is the narrowest it’s ever been in my lifetime (40 plus years!) which is why we should actively decide to not judge other women for their choices so we don’t perpetuate the policing of women’s bodies even if we wouldn’t make that choice ourselves

@OriginalUsername2 DD just wanted slightly fuller lips! Her informed choice. She earns the money and makes a choice. She has her nails done too! She has facials! Shock horror!

Of course people know what’s in the injections. Do women posters think all other women are thick?

Just to clarify. I don’t care whether anyone has Botox (I’ve done the weight loss jabs). I really do believe in personal choice about one’s body. It’s not about that at all. Correct whatever you don’t like.

I would her been less shocked if she said - I don’t like my forehead. I am more concerned about the “society expects it” rather than “I wanted it because”.

Clearly I won’t mention it again. She was telling (very loudly) the person who sits beside me (gay man in late 30s who was equally surprised).

My colleague was doing the questioning really, I just asked why - and she said as society required - and it was on this point alone that I was curious about!!

I asked why?

I think at this point she probably should have said mind your own business, instead of trying to explain her choices to you, while you repeatedly questioned her.

You might not understand, but she doesn't need to explain herself until you do.

I think you were pretty rude to ask in the first place, and extremely rude to keep pushing for an explanation from her. She’s probably said the first thing that’s popped into her head just to get you to leave her alone

Yes - I think this is exactly correct

I've had botox (only since the grand age of 49) so I've no criticism per se. Yet I do find it surprising to hear of people in their 20s having it, surely their skin is still smooth at that age? I suppose some people can have a wrinkled looking forehead/brow area even when young which is the muscles rather than the skin so I can sort of see why she might want to target something like that which she considers a "problem area" (not saying she should) and it gives her more confidence. I didn't have it to look young, I was just fed up with people asking if I was cross because my brow line had settled into a permanent frown - i like having a friendly face again!

But it sounds like she might be thinking she has to get random botox to pre empt the onset of wrinkles because that's what her peer group does. It does seem a real shame at that age that she's already preoccupied with the idea of her face aging rather than having a carefree enjoyment of her youth.

Also my aesthetician told me that the more botox you have, the more your muscles "learn" to relax so the effect can wear off more slowly with each dose. I imagine that if you start in your 20s and have it done regularly, there is a real risk that if you decide to stop and go back to a natural look later, your muscles may not wake up and start to move naturally again.

SOCIETY doesn't require anything.

Now if people want Botox, they're free. It's better to start earlier, it makes sense to prevent, rather than try to erase wrinkles.

But apart from that, I don't believe 99% of parent believe that they are required to have Botox - unless maybe they're famous? I am guessing Kate Middleton doesn't really feel she has the choice, but any random? no

But that’s the thing. I think it’s up to her what she does. I was more concerned that she thinks society requires it.

You shouldn’t have questioned her really. I keep my views on botox and hideous lip fillers to myself irl. Many people have an idea of beauty that does not tally with mine, but it’s their money to waste and health to risk. I just wish it would all go away.

I dunno i have 4 dds between 16 and 34 and botox and lip fillers aren't something they would do or even think about. They wear make up, get their hair done and occasionally their nails but that's it. Its tricky because we want women to be able to make choices, but if you have pressure from 'society' to do this stuff it isn't really a free choice is it?

I am totally for women doing what the hell they like with their own bodies but I do think the 'bar' for beauty has increased massively and it's left people who choose not to have costly and invasive things done to their faces feeling like they are unattractive. Of course that's not the fault of the women who do choose to do these things but I do feel like it a shame in a wider societal sense. That young girls are having to spend more and more and put all sorts into their bodies to fit into the beauty norm.

I want to do it but I haven’t because I’m worried about being one of the unlucky ones where it goes terribly wrong eg a droopy eye or something. People talk about Botox like it’s no big deal and easy peasy and I just wish I had your sort of confidence.

I agree, I worry what will come next DD is only 9!
But I don’t care what anyone does to their face, I don’t like it, I don’t think it makes anyone look younger but perhaps I’ve only seen bad results performed by Jo down the road who also does gels! I don’t like overly whitened, capped teeth, the thick, sore looking brows and lip filler either.
I wouldn’t interrogate anyone though
and certainly not at work, god help her in twenty /thirty years if she’s started so young.

Well yeah, society does expect that we all look as good as we can. That's nothing new. I think if she was blustering though she probably felt put on the spot.

You wonder why people don’t get Botox, put on make up or dye their hair? And you associate that with looking after yourself?

People? Or women?

What’s the point in feminism and equal opportunity if young women feel Botox is required

Fair pay, maternity rights, freedom of choice, all the things we take for granted like the right to work, inherit, own property? I don’t consider myself feminist, but that is a silly question.

Tbh as said she was telling the man who sits next to me very loudly about the cost of Botox etc and I just asked why did it it as. Would never have considered it or raised it otherwise.