A man who doesn't see his children

[Darkyrees]

If you met a man who seemed great, got one well with his family, financially secure and responsible, lots of friends and hobbies, but he told you he had a child that he didn't see. Would this just be a bit of a red flag that you'd weigh up against every thing else, or would it make you run for the hills?

Run for the hills

I think it depends, OP.

The case of the mother saying she wanted him not around would be v difficult.

I know someone who was divorced and although he initially saw their child a fair bit, the mother didn't want him involved and he thought it would cause too much upset to the child to go against it.

However, I think it's significant that he himself barely knew his own father, and he believed that fathers were not particularly important in kids' lives, his upbringing was solidly matriarchal. I think he regretted later though.

Personally I’d see it as a huge red flag and a turn off, however, DS’s Dad seems to have done alright (ish), with two marriages since we seperated 22 years ago. Personally I would have run for the hills!

I would run for the hills. His family is also horrible agreeing to abandon the child.

However, I'm incredibly biased based on my current situation. Ex decided to abandoned our children but his siblings are very welcoming and see dc regularly. He is applying pressure and he stopped communicating with his oldest sister over it.

She apologies for her brother behaviour and she compares it to some one being a drug addict. You can refuse to buy the drug but still have your door open for them.

Me and ex were married over a decade. I also knew his family before marriage. So it is different circumstances.

A comparison is a mother who leaves her baby with a foster family. Then never turn up.

The men do have the option to double up protection. Wrap it up or go solo. It is simple as that. I think men who abandon one child should get vasectomy. And the same with mothers who do these cruel acts that hurt children deliberately. Abandonment is a horrible cruel thing that people try to normalise. It will never be normal or morally right.

See how I'm saying abandonment and not protection against abuse. Abortion and abandonment are also different. It is called taking responsibility for your actions.

Well no..giving up for adoption usually involves hoping / knowing the child is going to have a better life as a result ..wanted by parents who have gone an extra mile to be so. It's in the best interests of the child. A father walking away, especially if he does not contribute financially, involves deciding what's best for him and screw the child. Totally different.

I’ve read all of your updates and I would still end the relationship. Your gut is telling you to run for a reason.

But the answers aren't either have a baby with this person you just met, or have surgery so you can never have children. There is a period in all relationships where even if you want children, you shouldn't be sure if you want a child with the partner you have as you don't know them well enough. It's perfectly reasonable for that to be the case a year into a relationship.

So again, it's 12 months into your new relationship, your boyfriend still won't have sex with you, as he doesn't know if he wants kids with you. Are you ok with that? Or do you expect him to know if you're right to be a co-parent with him after a few months?

There is a very good reason why the tradition was always to have courting, engagement, and then marriage, before sex was even considered.
(Of course many, many people broke the rules, but they risked suffering as a result)
Thanks to contraception, we are now free to have sex at the beginning of this chain of events instead of the end, but the traditional risks have not entirely gone away.

I am not sure if you can see from the chain of quotes, but this started because someone said that men shouldn't have sex unless they are sure they want babies. This was in the context of men losing any ability to halt a pregnancy after conception- irrespective of what contraception was used. That is why i am asking if the poster (and others) would be okay with a man still declining sex a year into a relationship on the basis that he is unsure about co-parenting with them.

To be honest if a man had documents showing that he’d tried to see his child but the mother was withholding contact I’d be in support of maintenance withdrawal

A year is nothing. Traditionally, the courting might have been a couple of years at least, and engagement a bit longer. You could be 'committed' to someone for five years or more before getting beyond kissing.

But yes, times have changed. If a woman wants sex, she has to be prepared to risk pregnancy (even if a very low risk) AND find a man who is happy to take the same risk.
As you point out, he has the additional risk of losing any choice in the matter after conception. But she has the much greater additional risk of facing abortion (not a minor thing) or being left holding a baby. She also faces a lack of choice: the choice to make him stay and step up into being a proper father.
The situation can never be symmetrical.

The problem is when immature sexist men think that they are not taking any risk, because they have no intention of taking responsibility for a potential baby.

So, according to himself, this man's problem is his tendency to be too honourable!

I'm sorry to hear that, and your situation sounds quite similar to mine.
I am always sceptical of the men who say 'she won't let me see them' because there's usually a backstory of sporadic contact, broken promises, prioritising their own life and another woman, drug or alcohol abuse, the house being an inhospitable dump, being a useless bad-tempered shit when he is forced to look after them so the children don't want the contact visits...as other pps have pointed out, a truly invested father would fight to see his children, as would the paternal grandparents.

Sounds like he has a case of Andrew Mountbatten-itis.

Depends on the reason, if he just can't be asked or he's being kept away for legitimate safeguarding reasons then run for the hills. However some are kept away for malicious reasons and fight and fight until their mental health is a wreck and can't fight no more. I'd need evidence they really tried to be in their childs life and was kept away for malicious reasons though. Think you should ask for more context/to see evidence before making a decision.

There’s some really black and white thinking here.
I genuinely feel someone would do really well with my child’s dad. He was always a good man. I imagine he’s not got in touch because it’s always been complicated. How do you tell a young adult that you “abandoned “ them because you didn’t like their mother?

Also we are in touch with other members of the family and DS gets on well with his cousins. His dad doesn’t get talked about as DS isn’t interested. He knows who he is, what he looked like and why he didn’t bother. DS is more gutted he didn’t grow up with siblings than his biological dad.

Depends. I know someone like this. He was absolutely screwed over by a girlfriend (maybe he was a bit of an innocent). They split up. She then poisoned the mind of their daughter, ' Stupid daddy hasn't.....' Bloke stood no chance.

There isn't always legal evidence. After a while, illness and weariness with unreasonable behaviour may make people give up. Not all men are blaggards and not all women are without reproach,

I wouldn't be happy to wait (even half) a year for sex but I also would think it reasonable if many men felt that a year was too soon to commit to co-parenting with me should I decide to continue a pregnancy. Trying to find a partner would be a very tedious and likely unsuccessful process.

It might depend on the dating "market" you are in.

I remember with my DH - we definitely did not wait half a year but I said within a few dates that (a) I was looking to date for marriage, not necessarily right this minute but if you're not looking for that and/or you realise after a while I'm not the one please tell me asap; and (b) if I get pregnant I will keep it so make your life decisions with that in mind

If someone truly did not want to become a father I assume he would have not asked me out on any further dates from that point!

Or they might rely on contraception assuming it will always work successfully to prevent pregnancy.

A risky strategy if you are very sure you definitely don't want to be a parent!

I think a lot of people are only certain they don't want a baby right now.

Such bullshit. The women were frequently pressured and forced into giving up the child.

You a man's right activist? If not, learn a bit before you open your mouth.