To think being a woman costs more?

[ClairN]

DH and I have been having a debate on discretionary spending. AIBU to think being a woman is more expensive?

Bikini waxes, hairdressers, tights, lingerie, taxis after dark…

You need lingerie and a bikini wax to be respected at work? You don't, it is discretionary.

I agree with you @ClairN.

not only that, but going on maternity leave then kippers your career and salary too. My husband and I used to earn the same but two children later, he’s been able to move companies and get promotions whilst I’ve been on maternity leave twice, so now earns more than me.

They’re choices in that they’re not legally compulsory but it’s like saying we don’t HAVE to wear office wear, we don’t HAVE to go running in running clothes, we don’t HAVE to wear nice things to the restaurant/theatre, we don’t HAVE to wear a raincoat when it rains… IRL different events call for different clothes, and men are lucky in that generally speaking a capsule wardrobe will do for most things. They can buy a couple of well cut suits and a few nice shirts and they’ll do for work, meals out, theatre, funerals, weddings. I can’t think of a single female outfit that would do for all of those things, possibly a black knee length dress but it’s a dated look for a meal out. Men’s clothes just don’t seem to ‘date’ in the way women’s do, very quickly. They don’t wear jewellery. They don’t carry handbags.

Of course, a woman could own a couple of black dresses and technically they would do for all the above, but it would be freezing in winter, seen as ‘funeral’ or ‘worklike’ for fun events, and eventually everyone would wonder why she wore the same thing every time that looks a bit dated.

Dressing well or just appropriately is a sign of respect and character and for women it’s just a much tougher gig involving more imagination, more items, more specificity of event and more effort.

Honestly? Nobody cares when the person is effective at their job. They start to care when they are not.

I can't believe the contrarians on this thread are now recommending buzz cuts for women! 😂

Florence Pugh, Natalie Portman and of course Sinead O'Connor looked great with buzz cuts. But nobody has said anyone should get a buzz cut!

Yes but we don’t look like Sinead O’Connor.

YABU. Those things are choices. I shave my legs, I paint my nails, I've never had a wax or a mani/pedi, I used to dye my hair but the ammonia began to sting after a while and I started to miss my natural hair colour, I buy shampoo that gives me a clean head of hair without any of the fancy stuff. I don't use conditioner. I use shower gel to wash my hair if need be as it has much of the same base ingredients as shampoo with a slightly different pH balance.

If you're in a customer-facing role with strict appearance requirements, ie air hostess, then the waxing, mani/pedi, hair styling, makeup etc are all necessitated, but I imagine it's all covered in the salary.

Nor do most men
You have fallen into the trap that women need to look good and fertile to be worth anything

Is the question at hand about should women spend money on these things at all? Probably not. We know they are arbitrary societal norms. Taking a stand is probably wise and would be good for the pocketbook.

is the question at hand how should a couple budget? Well, that is entirely different. Are they actually both comfortable with the woman taking a stand and giving up things like makeup and whatever other grooming she has typically chosen? Is the man who is upset about the spending levels suddenly going to instead be a bit upset that there is no more mascara and no more shaving? Now, this gets to other societal and relationship issues, but just being practical, the man can’t really have it both ways. Either he is willing for a larger portion of the household budget to go towards these items or he isn’t.

given your comment op about only knowing women who talk about Botox, for your own sake, widen your circle.

What will it tell me?

Regardless of whether women need conditioner, bras or haircuts- let's just assume they need nothing that men don't need- I would refuse to marry anyone who insisted on " my money your money" and nickel- and- dimed me down to the last cent. I would also refuse to marry anyone who used Botox or filler.

Quite. And they are all artists.

I agree. Your lifestyle and that of the women you know is not representative of "most" women. My life is no poorer for shaving my legs and not injecting crap into my face.

Try telling a single mother trying to scrape by on a low income that nails, bikini waxes and hair colouring is standard stuff and not fun money. Honestly mumsnet boggles my mind sometimes.

No. Most of these are discretionary spend, eg DH has hair cut every 6 weeks whereas I can go 3 months. I dye my grey hair, it costs £6 (done at home) every 6 weeks. I’m still quids in.

Also he has to eat more as he is bigger.

re: sanitary products, a moon cup is a one off £25!

We both drive so no need for taxis.

Thank god I don't work with women like that I'd want to poke my eyes out. Some women are just better with money than others I guess and don't spend on such rubbish.
Plus £50 for waxing a month?! How much hair do you have??!

I thought this was well established? That there’s a “pink tax” in life?

People are saying xyz is optional, but dressing and presenting yourself in ways that society deems acceptable and / or smart for the workplace costs extra if you’re a woman.

Even more if you’re a black woman of course.

I agree. I’m damned if I’m going to wear feminine drag just because I am a woman, and because somebody’s expectations exist out there. Trousers for every occasion, and heels can do one, as far as I’m concerned.

But at the same time, it’s this which also infuriates me about trans women (inter alia). They pick cartoon womanhood as absolute evidence of being female, and I find it extremely offensive.
It’s that strict, antiquated binary gender presentation which has been alienating and distressing so many young women these days, making them question their femininity, and it’s a cruel and oppressive requirement wherever the pressure may come from.

I’m alright, as I worship at the feet of the Katherine Hepburn school of fabulosity and am old enough to have left ‘damn-giving’ far behind me, but were I about fifteen I might be fretting miserably about the need to mince around showing my knickers and bosom.

I’m mean, goodness, when the UK elects a woman prime minister who looks like she’s been dragged through a hedge backwards and birthed 5 children to 3 different men, maybe then I’ll concede that social conditioning need have zero impact.

I hate going to the hairdresser's, I wish I could see it as a nice thing to do. Mainly id like a hairdresser who didn't feel the need to chat.

I need my hair cut, Ive been trying to motivate myself to book it for a few weeks.

I'm retired but was a senior manager and I wore trousers suits with nice blouses, I've worn them to all those events. I now generally wear jeans and a t shirt or jumper depending on the weather. I own one dress I bought about six years ago, I've worn it once. Never did like dresses which was more of an issue in the 70s but I was good at what I did and I only remember one old man making a comment.

How about a prime minister who may or may not wear lingerie and have a bikini wax. Doesn't have a fancy hair do (long hair in a bun would look fine). Does anyone care if the PM has her nails done as long as they are clean? Or God forbid she plucks her own eyebrows. Wouldn't worry me.

It is more expensive to be a woman, but the gap doesn't need to be anywhere as big as it currently is. It's all just pressure from the beauty industries and peer pressure.

The only thing I buy that I'd stop buying if I were suddenly male, is bras and period pads. If I was suddenly male I'd probably spend way more on razors and extra calories than those two things cost me.

But that's because I can't be bothered with makeup and other stuff. My late OH preferred me this way and his opinion was the only one I cared about, and now he's gone I'm not going to suddenly start in my mid thirties.

Unfortunately the gap is closing, but it's not by women feeling more able to resist the pressure, but by those pressures starting to be applied to men now too. The number of men with an extensive skincare routine is rising quite rapidly.