So who is going to be brave enough to ask whether Shabana Mahmood's proposed reforms are right/sensible/racist?

[Papyrophile]

Is Shabana Mahmood right or wrong to restrict asylum seeker's rights? In general?

Sir Keir Starmer has labelled Reform UK's policy of scrapping indefinite leave to remain as "racist" and "immoral".
The policy, which could effectively lead to hundreds of thousands of people who are here legally being deported from the UK, was announced by party leader Nigel Farage last week.
Sir Keir added he did not think Reform UK supporters were racist but "frustrated" after 14 years of "Tory failure".

Is it the other week you are referring to?
Because it seems that he was calling a policy racist, not supporters.

So is that policy racist but not Labour’s

Can you say why?

You can't tell the difference? Or are you pretending, just to try.. I dunno, goad?

Stick to facts please.

Agreed

No I’m asking you, you feel strongly there’s a difference. Can you say why?

We really do not want to leave the ECHR and appalled that Kemi is still banging on about it as some sort of solution.

I wouldn't trust any of our govs if not in the ECHR, would you?

My observations are that I think that she is spot on that if such measures are not taken now then the alternatives from Reform will be far worse.

I also think that there will be a strong resistance from Labour backbenchers that will seriously water down the final proposals.

If she succeeds then this will result in a significant decline in illegal migration which will cut support for Reform. If she fails and the proposals are watered down then that will put Reform in a very strong position in the polls.

She put Max Wilkinson from the Liberals in his place when he denied that the issue of immigration was causing division within the country.

And lastly succeed or fail (plus the swearing in Parliament) she has shown herself to be a strong contender for leader of the Labour Party.

Of course I can, but with greatest of respect, am done with you.

I thought it might be difficult to say. Ok

Sure this’ll help. It’s a tough question ik.

Bollocks is it tough and stop treating me like an idiot - but then you like to try lord it over I have noticed.

I refuse to converse with you anymore. I have tried on occasion to have a normal chitchat and exchange of views. When facts are put to you in response to one of your incorrect posts, you do not acknowledge those facts, instead moving onto something new.
Conversing with you is tiresome because of it. You like to come over as someone who thinks they're really smart, trying always to have 'one up' on someone but in reality you are not interested in facts, truth or anything other than your own voice and that's not smart. Smart is learning, smart is the ability to see the whole picture, smart is finding out facts rather than being selective in what they believe to be true.

It's boring, tiresome talking to someone like this and as I said, am done.

You don’t need to lose it, it’s ok. I wanted to know if you could say what the difference was.

It’s obviously prompted some kind of reaction instead of just saying what that difference is. Whatever really.

Badenoch has to try her best to make herself and her party look like they're still relevant. That's what motivates this more than a genuine desire to do anything, which was notably absent in their last decade in government. However, if it gets this through and avoids the suicidal sabotage manoeuvres of backbenchers, then that's a gain. I don't get how they seem unaware that opposing this is as good as forfeiting the next election right now.

Not leave. But reform / amend. As Jack Straw describes.

https://www.archivebuttons.com/articles?article=www.independent.co.uk/voices/echr-migration-small-boats-shabana-mahmood-b2866526.html

Ok, the screenshot put up says 'leave'.
Isn't part of the proposal by Labour including looking into some amendments? Unless I heard wrong for which I apologise.

Edited, link doesn't work but prob find it ok for a read :-)

This govt are a hypocritical and gutless bunch, and I would be amazed if anything they do would go as far as we need. But I welcome the shift in tone. Got there in the end 🙄

Germany have made a deal with the Taliban: returnees in return for aid.

Apparently Germans are fine with that, however I really can’t see giving taxpayers’ money to one of the most murderous regimes on earth being exactly a vote winner here.

I agree if the Labour backbenchers rebel against a Labour Government on this whilst at the same time the Conservatives are supporting the Labour Government then it is pretty much over for the Labour Government.

You would effectively have the Conservative party propping up the Labour Government against their own Labour MPs.

To be fair it is not just the Labour backbenchers opposing this, the Liberals are also in opposition

If Labour do as proposed, they might actaully win a second term and keep the fascists out. I can’t as of yet for a minute believe they will do it though.

Obviously the center left Danish government is a good model. We should also follow other Danish examples like banning people from outside the UK buying our properties and inflating our house prices.

Badenoch made this offer precisely because of "party politics"

She was in Govt, along with Philp as Asylum claims shot through the roof, they did nothing about this.

Should Labour take this up, she'd be crowing "Look, Labour are weak, they need us"
Which of course with a large majority they do not.

If Labour backbenchers scupper these plans, then they really do reserve to lose the next GE but it looks very much like the numbers who would oppose any of this is very small.

I think they would as most people who are very worried about immigration aren’t actually ‘fascists’. Nor do they want the death penalty, complete decimation of anything state owned, or actual racism. You’d be surprised.

Yet Denmark, a strong supporter of the ECHR has no problem having pretty much exactly the same policy, which has reduced their migration issues.

Successful Asylum claims in Europe are falling, how come if the ECHR is the block?

Its just another excuse as to why they failed, both parties, to secure and control the border.

In fact Denmark wants to amend the ECHR to make it easier to expel foreign criminals and to control immigration more.

The Danish government wants to alter how domestic courts interpret the ECHR, looking to align the convention with stricter national laws on immigration..