So who is going to be brave enough to ask whether Shabana Mahmood's proposed reforms are right/sensible/racist?

[Papyrophile]

Is Shabana Mahmood right or wrong to restrict asylum seeker's rights? In general?

Spot on....so many apologists on here!😖

They have worked in Denmark & Sweden

What would you do, specifically?

For what its worth it think its a move in a sensible direction but would like to understand what the 20 year period/ 30 monthly reviews would mean for people's job prospects and any children they have. Otherwise the balance isn't right for me
But this thread is full of vile idiots who dont consider any type of immigration or asylum to be valid and call everyone unknowns and illegals like some TR sychophant they would be the 1st to throw a tantrum if their circumstances fell apart. But such are the depths our country has fallen to

The problem here is if the issues on economic migration are not addressed, then we will get a Govt a 1000x worse.

That does apply to some countries, including Ukraine, but not all.

However, just because a country's capital is safe does not mean that all parts of the country is e.g. Ethiopia. Or those in known opposition or (dangerous jobs i.e. journalists)to whatever the current government. Likewise, the long-term safety of women and gay people in certain societies.

I think if a person, plus family members have been able to make multiple journeys over a number of years, they obviously feel safe enough.

Absolutely this. Labour is burning its ideology l, and credibility with lefties, in favour of electoral pragmatism. Things is, the back benchers won’t go for it, and I’m not sure I actually believe them anyway.

2023
The surprising diversity of the EU national population in the UK

'There are roughly one million people living in the UK under EU freedom of movement rules, who were born outside of the EU ...'

'during the UK’s membership of the EU, freedom of movement was a major driver of immigration to the UK of people born outside of the EU'

[NB non-EU dependants could use EU freedom of movement rules to join their family member who had obtained EU citizenship and then relocated to the UK]

Continent of birth:
Africa - 245,770
Americas - 182,066
Asia - 392,128...
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/diversity-eu-national-population-uk/

The situation has changed, policies have to change.

Just 18 Backbenchers have voiced their concerns, so far.

Labour might get away with having to back down on Welfare Reform but if they water down these plans, then they deserve to be toast in 2029.

The Cons are also introducing policies that they would never have done just 12 months ago.

And still, it's not the fault of the immigrants. You've real trouble with that.

Can you be sure how many were White/Christian born outside of Europe? bearing in mind the colonial past of much of Europe in Africa and Asia.

"Americas" could mean anything.

& hasn't the UK taken in 10s of 1000s of HK nationals who are from Asia?

Agree. Labour is no longer in a position to ignore this issue, rightly or wrongly. To ignore it is opening the door to the far right and that's not so far fetched as it seems when see the comments that we are seeing.

Horrible times.

No it hasn't. You've just been hoodwinked, completely and utterly.

Fucking Punch and Judy.

It’s a gamble by Labour. If it doesn’t work after their other attempts which were meant to be game changers then they’ve set the scene for harsher measures by someone else.

What harsher measures?

The "Deport within 1 week" by Phip and Farage have been debunked as totally impossible.

To be fair, Reform will get in if Labour are not seen to do anything - easily. We've already seen that start to happen and their measures are far harsher. Leaving ECHR, chucking out those with IDL, returning all people by boat without due process etc and we are seeing on here, and other social media type place where people's views are aligning with Reforms.. Even the tories now are getting worse with what they say they will do.

I don't think we can totally lay the blame at Labour here for future decisions by nastier parties.

I always thought we had a responsibility towards HK, and I generally think the HK migrants will fit in just fine to the UK. First gen arrivals will be here to work, heads down, and make sure their kids fit in and qualify for second generation success as professionals. Like the Ugandan Asians who arrived in the 70s from East Africa. Who are now an established element of the middle class and as British as I am, although they might cheer for India at cricket. I remain in need of conviction that Muslim migrants will adopt Englishness as their primary identity. I know that sounds imprecise but Islam is a do or die religion, and Europe largely left that absolutist phase of purity behind in the 16th century.

Only if they obey the law. We are starting to see leaders ignore laws - Trump is a prime example.

For a while Labour used it’s culture wars, far right, racist even to deflect - it’s hypocritical but that’s all gone.

They can’t rely on that anymore as they want to be seen as ‘tough’ and in touch with the electorate.

The earlier stuff was said to be the game changer needed (one in one out etc) but here’s another one. We’ll see.

So you agree or not that they will be to blame for future harsher measures by other parties? I thought that's what we were talking about but your response isn't clear.

@Pharazon

germany are sending people back to Afghanistan…

I think they’re removing earlier barriers eg the whole you’re far right, racist if you want lower asylum claims, or it’s only culture wars.

They can’t say that anymore, so these new policies have to work for them. Although they’ve alienated so many people maybe they won’t get those votes back anyway.