To think my friend was racist, rude or both?

[RicottaOtter]

I was talking to a friend this morning. This friend is very concerned about excessive immigration to the UK, and plans to vote reform at the next general election because she believes only reform have the guts to tackle the problem properly. I was listening and not saying anything when this friend suddenly said, ‘Don’t worry - you’ll be okay, because of your husband, and you’re a mother to English children…’

I was gobsmacked at first - then realised she was talking about my ethnicity (one quarter English/one quarter white South African but originally English/half East European Jewish). I’ve lived in England my entire life and as far as I’m concerned I’m as English as this friend who was talking to me - whatever my ancestry might be.

Now, remember, this friend was (I think?) trying to be nice and reassuring (‘Don’t worry, you’ll* be okay’) - but I felt quite horrified and angry to have this said to me - am I being unreasonable?

Wot? You are reading something that I can't see.

The friend thinks the OP, who is part South African and of Jewish heritage, is less British than her, despite citizenship, and will only be ‘fine’ because her husband is a proper white Brit. What aren’t you seeing?

It really can’t be improved without more money being thrown at it, when that’s already been tried over the last couple of decades, with absolutely no improvement whatsoever. In fact it’s in a far worse state now than it’s ever been. NHS dentists - none. Operation and investigation waiting lists - months/years. A&E waiting times - literally hours and hours. GP appointments - like hens teeth, and that’s if you’re willing to go in a phone queue of 30 plus people at 8.00 on a Monday morning. If you think it can be easily improved, you need to get in touch with the Government pronto. I’m sure they’d love to learn how they could easily fix the shit show it’s become. I’m not going to get into immigration. You will know what he intends to introduce. There’s some policies I agree with. Some I don’t. As someone has pointed out on here, it’s not a post on immigration, and I’m not going to derail any further. As you were….

Anyone who talks about ‘throwing money’ at it has a bit of an agenda. Yes, it has problems. They can be fixed. Not quickly, but they can. Insurance is not the answer. Particularly not in the US style which is what Farage wants (because he can make money out of it)

This is what reform voters think, this is who they are…
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/04/11/what-reform-uk-voters-really-think/

To the pp who asked for evidence of links to facsist ideals, this section is the very definition of it.

• There are deeply authoritarian attitudes amongst Reform UK voters. Over half (53%) would prefer a strong leader with the power to ignore or override Parliament, while 41% believe that “in certain circumstances, violence can be necessary to defend something you strongly believe in.”

OP I wouldn’t touch a reform voter with a barge poll. Fortunately in my circles is not acceptable to say out loud you support them. It’s done on the quiet.

*immune to

I haven’t said immigration has caused failing infrastructure. I’ve said our infrastructure is failing due to a combination of under investment and too many people using it. There’s a difference. But my concerns are that uncontrolled immigration is contributing to it worsening.

I can't understand the racist suggestions on this thread at all. M husband is European (I'm British). After Brexit he had to apply to remain (despite having lived here for 20+ years). I'm sure friends remarked to him that "he'd be okay" (as he's married to me). I wouldn't even have considered for a nano second that this was in any way racist (nor would he).

What am I missing?

That's bonkers. She'd be a very ex friend if it was me. She's not someone I'd want around me ever.

Unless I've missed something, the OP isn't an immigrant.

It’s a money pit. We have heard from governments year in and year out the billions of extra money invested. But there’s been no improvement. How long before someone admits it’s not working any more. I know people are very nostalgic and sentimental about the NHS, and I’m equally unhappy that it’s not working, but atm it’s teetering on total collapse. I think unless you have needed to use it recently, you’ve no idea how bad it is. A tweaked US style health insurance scheme is needed.

Ok then. You need to look harder maybe?

Blimey - now you’ll be wondering if whenever you see her she’s thinking this and “othering” you.

Sounds like you’re more English/ British in terms of heritage than I am, but because my heritage is Western European I never seem to get called “not English” 🤔

You can’t see or understand it for a reason. I will leave that for you to work out for yourself.

So instead of asking her how she hadn't been aware of the friend's racist views previously, you decided to cast doubt on the OP's account of her friend's racist comment?

Perhaps she did already know that her friend was a Reform supporter, but previously believed - as many apparently do - that supporting Reform didn't necessarily make her racist? And it's only now that her friend's racism has become clearer to her? I mean, I would naturally assume that anyone who supports Reform is likely to be racist because I believe that Reform is a fundamentally racist party, but their supporters regularly claim not to be and some people will probably take that at face value.

Your attempt to suggest that the OP's story is made up is part of a wider pattern that I see on any thread where racism is mentioned. I don't know if Reform voters have some sort of duty rota where they take it in turns to suggest that anyone who says that they have experienced racism must be lying, but it's very predictable and rather tedious.

Net immigration has reduced by about half. It’s not uncontrolled. You can stop worrying.

The OP is a British citizen, born in Britain. Different situation. Though I think you and your DH probably should worry as Farage wants to remove people with indefinite leave to remain.

Try reading it again.

I fundamentally disagree. Our government spends less per capita on health than the US. All that type of system does is make profits for businesses. Satisfaction in the NHS was very high in 2010. It can be again, but it’ll take time - and, yes, investment.

Weird that Ben Habib and Zia Yusuf have both held prominent positions then, since neither of them are white.

It’s the p9litical version of ‘some of my best friends are black’. Doesn’t make Reform not racist. Some POC fail to grasp racists means the whole group, including their ‘friends’. It’s a mystery to me, but it happens.

I’ve had relatives over the last couple of years who have had to use the NHS and the service received verges on incompetence - Annecdote isn't data. Your "relatives" don't live everywhere across the UK, and don't use every single service the NHS offers. And "have had to use the NHS" is so empty as to be meaningless. The vast majority "have had to use" the NHS in the past year. I have. The service I received was very good.

Clearly the NHS has long-standing problems, caused in large part by 14+ years of deliberate underfunding. But it remains one of the best global exemplars of delivering health services to millions of people in a cost effective manner. Your belief that decimating it further and forcing private health care is the best way forward is touchingly naive - or bone-achingly stupid depending on your point of view.

but just the more extreme views he has, which tbh I don’t think would see the light of day anyway. If, god forbid, that grifting turd ever became PM, you'll find that his extreme views will see the light of day. Because, once it becomes obvious that he doesn't have the first understanding of, or ability to, govern a complex, post-industrial economy like the UK and voters begin to hold him to account, ever-more extreme is all that's open to him.

The number of people who say that both Tories and Labour aren't fit to govern so they'll vote Reform is bizarre. Reform is a PLC, not a political party, run by men whose only interest is accruing wealth and power for themselves, who don't have any vision other than selling of the last of the family silver, who hold deeply unpleasant views about race, sexuality and gender, who are happy to tacitly (at time overtly) encourage racism - and who've shown (Farage, Tice) that they're absolutely not interested in doing anything at all for the "little" people who elected them. Tice doesn't even live in the country full-time. Farage is only interested in sniffing the backsides of wannabe dictators.

Like I said - touchingly naive. Or bone-achingly stupid. Which, in terms of outcomes, come to more or less the same thing.

I'd ask her to leave. She IS racist and I'd tell her so.

Meanwhile, let no-one else in. It’s madness, like being on a raft at sea, yet letting more and more people on it til it sinks.

So, when are you starting your training to be a carer then? Or is it agricultural field work you're going for? And what are your plans for ensuring that your children, your siblings' children and the children of all your friends, neighbours and casual acquaintances are the ones who will be going into caring, crop-picking, street sweeping and the lower echelons of seasonal hospitality work?

Oh, and making statements like "let no one else in" just higjlights a lack of understanding of how the economy works.

She wasn’t even saying you will be ok because of who you. Rather that you have an English husband / kids.

So if you did not have that she would not see you ask ok? Yeah your friend is a hardcore racist.

Sorry.

Also shows it’s not simply about being an immigrant for people like your friend. She is an ethno-nationalist.