To think my friend was racist, rude or both?

[RicottaOtter]

I was talking to a friend this morning. This friend is very concerned about excessive immigration to the UK, and plans to vote reform at the next general election because she believes only reform have the guts to tackle the problem properly. I was listening and not saying anything when this friend suddenly said, ‘Don’t worry - you’ll be okay, because of your husband, and you’re a mother to English children…’

I was gobsmacked at first - then realised she was talking about my ethnicity (one quarter English/one quarter white South African but originally English/half East European Jewish). I’ve lived in England my entire life and as far as I’m concerned I’m as English as this friend who was talking to me - whatever my ancestry might be.

Now, remember, this friend was (I think?) trying to be nice and reassuring (‘Don’t worry, you’ll* be okay’) - but I felt quite horrified and angry to have this said to me - am I being unreasonable?

There are some issues which turn me off them, but atm they’re ticking more boxes than either Labour or Tory for me. Even by reforming or partially dismantling the NHS, which is absolutely dire, but that’s for another thread. I strongly oppose fox hunting too, and it would be a deal breaker for me if he started making that legal again. Also don’t agree with some of his more extreme views on immigration, but I will await to see his published manifesto nearer the GE before making any decisions on how I vote.

So you want to pay for US style health insurance - Farage is on record saying this is his solution to NHS ‘reform’.
You disagree with him on fox hunting and immigration, so which boxes is he ticking for you?

What on earth do her views on Israel/Palestine have to do with her right as a British citizen to be in the UK? Do you believe that some views would make someone "less British"? Who would be the arbiter of which views were British enough to qualify?

Can I decide that someone is no longer British because I deem their views to be too racist and not aligned with British values?

You said yourself you're 1/4 English and the conversation was about immigration.

I don't know why you've brought race into it.

It sounds like your friend was reassuring you that if Reform deport illegal immigrants you won't be removed - despite being predominantly not English - because of your family circumstances.

Good on your friend!

Can I decide that someone is no longer British because I deem their views to be too racist and not aligned with British values?
Oh @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack if only we could do this. We could improve the country no end. I’m joking of course. A citizen is a citizen and that’s that.

She’s 100% British, being a citizen. She doesn’t need to have her family circumstances align with what you think is ok in order to be safe from removal. What an outrageous thing to say.
Saying someone isn’t English but is partly another race IS bringing race into it.

Incidentally I’m 100% not English, being Welsh. English is not synonymous with British.

Good on the OP's racist friend?

More like shame on you.

Racism is very real. And I’ve never said it doesn’t exist, because I know it does. But having concerns about uncontrolled immigration isn’t racist. And in fact every race living in the UK should be concerned about immigration, because our collapsing infrastructure affects everyone living here already, whatever the colour of their skin. I’m sure a POC is as equally as frustrated about the state of the NHS and housing as anyone else. And to blame it on the government, present and past, might be correct, but sorting out our failing infrastructure is going to take years. We chant change what’s happened so have to focus on resolving it in future decades. Meanwhile, let no-one else in. It’s madness, like being on a raft at sea, yet letting more and more people on it til it sinks.

Yeah, but just imagine if we could export all of the racists off to Rwanda or something!

None of the issue with infrastructure is to do with immigration. It’s to do with lack of investment and growing wealth inequality. It’s the top 1% causing the damage, not immigrants.

She should not be in your house and benefiting from your generosity. If you can’t turf her out and put an end to this weekend of “fun” grin and bear it but tell yourself that there will be no more. She is not your friend. This is the end of it.

She will find new friends in the Reform
party.

And does not warrant the statement made to a “friend” which suggests that she envisages and longs for the day when all non English people’s (according to her definition) get kicked out.

This. Britain is a mongrel nation. Your ‘friend’ is an idiot to not realise that, is quite thick and uneducated it seems- and yes, racist and an anti-Semite. Make an excuse and get her to sling her hook, then drop her. Life is too short to tolerate this bullshit!

You might not have said that racism didn't exist, but you implied that the OP might have made up this particular example. Why would you want to suggest that?

I don't think I've ever seen a thread about racism on MN where there isn't at least one Reform type trying to argue that it didn't happen or it wasn't really racist etc.

This thread isn't about immigration, so I'm not sure why you're trying to bring that in. This is about a racist comment that was made towards a British citizen who has lived here all her life. Which you suggested might be a fabrication.

I do feel that there should be at least partial introduction of compulsory private health insurance, but retain some sort of NHS platform for those not in a position to contribute privately. You can’t honestly believe the NHS is currently fit for purpose? I’ve had relatives over the last couple of years who have had to use the NHS and the service received verges on incompetence. It really is dire. And I didn’t say I didn’t agree with his immigration policies, but just the more extreme views he has, which tbh I don’t think would see the light of day anyway. The fox hunting issue hasn’t come to the fore, it’s just people who have pointed out his previous history on this, he hasn’t confirmed that fox hunting policies are going to change.

She’s at your house. She says something that is racist and you come on MN to discuss and wonder if she is a racist.

Are you frightened of her? Are you not able to have a discussion with her about how you feel about what she said?

I can understand you may not want the
confrontation but she is supposed to be your friend. She shared her view with you, you are absolutely in your right to share your views with her. Please do it!

It’s not reform she’s worried about, it’s the racist friend.

They are not white supremacist but a big portion (dare I say the majority) of their following are, so that should make us reflect the current state of affairs in this godforsaken country right now.

The NHS could very easily be improved and remain as it is.
Farage has said ‘US style’ is his preference, so this is another policy on which he doesn’t tick your box.
I’m not aware of any immigration policies of his which aren’t extreme - which do you mean?
Which things he’s doing tick your boxes? I genuinely can’t see anywhere he aligns with things you’ve said so far.

Can you point to research which shows that the majority of people who follow Reform are white supremacists?

Exactly. The post isn’t about immigration. And I didn’t make it into one. I had mentioned that I was with the friend on Reform and immigration, but thought her comment on ‘you’ll be okay’ unnecessary and rude. I then responded to a poster who asked me why I agree with Reform. Ive kept it brief, as not wanting to derail. Call me a cynic, but there’s so many posts started like this where Reform is mentioned, then the poster will add a mentioned derogatory remark at the end. It’s just I’m thinking what is OP doing with a friend like this, because surely this is something she will have noted before? Friends don’t suddenly show who they are or what they stand for so far into a friendship. I don’t really discuss politics with friends, but I know them enough to know their general opinions on stuff from other fringe conversations.

The only thing really bothering me about this country is the rise of racism and other intolerance.
Wealth inequality needs sorting though.

I'm afraid that i've become immured to this kind of thing.

I kept my own (Eastern European) surname for some years after I married. I was born in Scotland and have a Scottish mother. I worked in Scotland.

When I was in my late 30s, a new bloke [ ETA Learning Support Teacher, I recall] from the south of England came to the secondary school where I was the lead for junior English.

He approached me one day: "So when did you come to this country?."

I gave him my time and date of birth. "Wow! It must have made quite an impression on you!"

"No, but it made a helluva impression on my mum."

I have a Fife accent and was working in a Fife school at the time. I'll admit that I had to bite my tongue - a southerner accusing me of being an incomer when I was working in a school only a few miles from my hometown? [Sorry, I guess that makes me just as bad!]

She’s a British citizen ffs

I'd struggle to maintain a friendship with anyone planning to vote Reform full stop, regardless of the comment she made.