To not expect to pay

[Gilesmummy]

We moved into a new house which needed lots of work. I got a quote for repainting my kitchen cabinets and my friend said we can help we won’t charge anywhere near that. It was said with humour so I assumed they meant they would help as friends. The husband has been doing the cupboards over a period of four months. It’s not a huge kitchen he has just taken forever.
We let him get on and didn’t push him as we thought he was doing it to be nice.
He has made a dreadful job, so as they’ve come back I’ve redone them myself and not said anything.
now today the wife,my friend, has told me she will be bringing the invoice over on Tuesday
We never really discussed payment (how much or if they were charging ) it never occurred to me that a friend would charge.( He is a retired 80 year old joiner ) Often we’d said add it to the invoice jokingly and my husband has said to them we will take you out for a meal to say thank you. if I was paying I’d have wanted it done properly and sooner. It still not finished and I was planning to redo it all myself and not tell them how bad a job it was.
am I being unreasonable in not expecting to pay and how do I deal with it?

YANBU but this is going to get very awkward. Given he is a joiner, I would have been careful to agree on a price at the start (or been clear that it was a favour). I think your jokes about adding it to the invoice (which I totally could imagine saying myself) will have been interpreted by him as you expecting to pay for it because he was coming at the whole thing from a different perspective. You’ll either have to pay to keep the friendship or say why you’re not paying, including the poor quality of the work - phrased tactfully, but accept that you’ll probably not be friends anymore.

Ugh, I’m totally on your side but I think, unless you are ok to forego the friendship, you’re going to have to smile and pay the invoice

I’m sorry but I think you need to suck this up, pending the invoice cost. If it’s way lower than a professional, I’d just pay it. Because he said ‘he’d charge less’ you let him do the work and said invoice it, so all along he thought he was getting paid. If you didn’t want him to do it, the time to say that was at the start.

we won’t charge anywhere near that.

Seems quite clear that there would have been a charge.

Oh gosh, I’m afraid you’re being rather a CF. He’s done a lot of work for you, unless he was crystal clear that he was doing it for nothing, you need to pay.

It was said with humour so I assumed they meant they would help as friends

they, presumably, assumed you’d pay as they mentioned they wouldn’t charge as much.

I would never assumed something was free help and would have clarified, asking them ‘how much?’. It would have been great if they’d then said ‘don’t be daft, we’ll help out for nothing’, but no way would I have gone ahead without making certain.
As you also haven’t pointed out the awful job it’s going to be very tricky!
This is on you I’m afraid.

Defo on you OP. Never assume. You know the old saying 🫏

They said they would do it for less, not for free! Several times you told him to add it to the invoice, he obviously didn’t think it was a joke. This ones on you, you’ll have to pay.

This

what made you think they meant to do it ‘as friends’. It’s not great but I’x say this was in you.

Think you’re being CF, they said they would do it for less, not for free. If its a bad job don’t give him anymore work or ask him to touch it up where it needs it.

I got a quote for repainting my kitchen cabinets and my friend said we can help we won’t charge anywhere near that

Your friend didn’t say they’d do it for free they said ‘we won’t charge anywhere near that’ which implies there will be a charge. She didn’t say we won’t charge. You all should have quit joking about and clarified beforehand if this would cost and if so how much.

I agree with this.

They said "for less" not free and also, if you aren't happy with the work, let him know and give him chance to put it right

I think this is just a misunderstanding on your part and you need to pay and learn from this.

Thanks everyone. We have asked several times “ how much is this going to cost us then” but it’s been brushed off. I thought if we knew he was going to charge then I would have stopped him. My husband is furious. The guy always turned up at lunch so we made him lunch, he would turn up unannounced and then expect us to drop everything so he could get on. I think I’m more hurt that a friend would even think about charging another friend. Guess I’ll just have to suck it up.
I wouldn’t have dreamed of charging them for anything I do.

Sorry but I think they did tell you they were going to charge “we won’t charge anything like that” means they will charge something.

This really needed to be sorted out sooner and properly to avoid misunderstanding.

As it is they’ve done an awful job so you’re in a very difficult position.

I would conclude that you shouldn’t mix friendships with business arrangements unless you’re prepared for awkward conversations.

Agree with everyone else, they said they wouldn't charge as much, this implies there would be a charge ( at "mates rates" probably). You should pay, if you aren't happy it could lead to an awkward discussion, but this is a risk you take when using friends to do work.

Sounds like they never said it was free, they said charge less. It’s going to be difficult. I guess see what the invoice says and then see how to handle it

I never said to invoice us.. if I had paid a professional at least I would have had grounds for not paying. It is a really bad job he’s done. I suppose it’s down to both of us not being exactly clear at the beginning.

I have a profession. I am always explicit with people about what my normal fees are, exactly what 'mates rates' discount they might be getting (if any). I only every make no charge for direct family - dc, dgc, siblings.

Nephews, neices, former next door neighbours all have to pay.

If they were reluctant to name a price you shouldn't have let them start, not until you were clear on the terms. And outcome you expected.

I think that depends on how these things were said and the relationship you have. A friend of mine needed a spare part for a machine and getting one from the maker would have been insanely expensive at £300, so I said I'd make one for her. There were lots of jokes about how i wouldn't charge her anywhere near that, or that I'd ask for the bargain price of £290, etc etc. In reality I didn't charge her and had no intention of doing so.

Unfortunately I think there has been a huge miscommunication. How much exactly was your quote for? We had ours professionally sprayed and I thought it was really reasonable. I think just pay up for the sake of the friendship, however I really do feel it will never be the same after this.

This I'm afraid.

(Also points for excellent use of an emoji.)

It’s clearly a huge misunderstanding and I think it depends how keen you are to keep the friendship. If you’re happy to let it go then you can tell them that a fee was never agreed, that you aren’t happy with the the work, and they can pursue a small claim if they want to - which they’ll be unsuccessful at as have no evidence of having provided or discussed an agreed fee prior to beginning work, and no contract.

From their side, I can sympathise to some extent: they indicated that there would be a cost in saying “we won’t charge anything like that”, which you assumed was a joke, and other jokes from you about “adding it to the invoice” are going to have reinforced to them that you believed you’d pay something. If the work is shitty, however, are they arguing that? I’d use that as your main fulcrum to the whole disagreement: whether you agreed to pay or not, the work is substandard, and that needs to be reflected.

If you are not happy with the work tell him ,especially as you are going to pay him .

I think I'd wait to see what the invoice is before making a decision. If you've been asking about how much it will cost without getting an answer, then I do think you have some wiggle room if the price feels unfair, but equally they never said explicitly that it was going to be free labour.
It's a tough situation and it sounds like no one has been very clear about things, but keep your powder dry until you see the invoice.
Maybe the invoice will just be a note saying: two cappuccinos and a round of cakes.
That is the sort of daft/funny thing my grandad would have done if he'd been joking with friends about invoices etc.

'We can help we won’t charge anywhere near that' does not mean 'we will do it for free'.

Quite the opposite. They mentioned payment (albeit not a set fee) pretty much up front.

So yeah you should pay him something. And don't assume people would wish to do hours worth of manual labour (however shoddy) in other people's houses for free at 80 years old.