To not expect to pay

[Gilesmummy]

We moved into a new house which needed lots of work. I got a quote for repainting my kitchen cabinets and my friend said we can help we won’t charge anywhere near that. It was said with humour so I assumed they meant they would help as friends. The husband has been doing the cupboards over a period of four months. It’s not a huge kitchen he has just taken forever.
We let him get on and didn’t push him as we thought he was doing it to be nice.
He has made a dreadful job, so as they’ve come back I’ve redone them myself and not said anything.
now today the wife,my friend, has told me she will be bringing the invoice over on Tuesday
We never really discussed payment (how much or if they were charging ) it never occurred to me that a friend would charge.( He is a retired 80 year old joiner ) Often we’d said add it to the invoice jokingly and my husband has said to them we will take you out for a meal to say thank you. if I was paying I’d have wanted it done properly and sooner. It still not finished and I was planning to redo it all myself and not tell them how bad a job it was.
am I being unreasonable in not expecting to pay and how do I deal with it?

As so many others have said, it always gets really awkward when friends do a job like this. You should have been very specific from the start….around timescales and costs etc and exactly what they would charge. But that ship has sailed and four months down the line the job still isn’t finished what he has done is so awful you’ve had to redo it yourself, and now she wants payment. You are going to fall out over this….if you don’t pay it they won’t be happy. And if you do you will be resentful. I think I would have a word with your friend. Something along the lines of “we did ask you several times about paying for this and you brushed us off. So we presumed you were doing it as a favour. I’ve got to be very honest here, for both our sakes. The standard of work has been awful, and as each cupboard has come back to us, I’ve had to completely redo it myself. We haven’t said anything as didn’t want to hurt Jim’s feelings, he’s a lovely man and very kind to offer to help us. For the same reason we haven’t complained that it’s now over four months and still not finished. I’m concerned that he will offer to help someone else with a similar project and cause similar issues. I’m happy to reimburse you for any materials, and I’ve lost count of all the lunches we’ve provided for Jim! But we will take you out for a meal to say thank you. Hope you aren’t upset at my being so Frank, but I would hate Jim to start being talked about….i hope you understand”

She got a professional quote first, and was told they could do it for cheaper. I was meaning that I would just pay up if it was a lot cheaper than the quote, but not if it was still close the the original quote.

I think that, all in all, there is fault on both sides because neither the OP, nor her friends have made a good enough attempt to agree what payment will be made (or not). And this has rumbled on for 4 bloody months.

But the thing is, it’s pretty weird that if the friends wanted to be paid from the outset, they did not say what that amount would be.

Right. No ambiguity there, why did you think it would be free?

Brushing off questions about the amount doesn’t mean they’re not going to charge you.

She thought it wasn't a great job and still let him carry on wasting his time - if she wasn't expecting to pay him, I don't think you can make that ok.
He is an old man and she has let him come over, repeatedly, spending hours overall to do something for her, that she can apparently do herself (because that's what's happening next anyway).

You are not legally obliged to pay them as there was no discussion about money before they started. So at least from that perspective you are in the clear. You will probably loose their friendship if you don’t pay, so it depends on much they want, how bad a job they have done, and whether you value their friendship.good luck! Difficult situation for both sides.

Apart from the fact that WE provided the materials. If you were a person expecting to be paid for your work surely you’d give a price so we could agree or not. We weren’t given the option of saying yes or no. He turned up when he fancied and always sat and chatted for ages.
I have had contractors in for months doing work and every one of them gave a quote.

You can make that ok by not hurting his feelings! How would you feel if you were helping someone and they said sorry don’t carry on it’s not up a good standard.
I was sparing his feelings as I thought he was doing it as a friend. If he was charging I would have stopped him when the first doors were done.

You really need to nip this in the bud now. I'd send a message saying, " I'm really sorry but it wasn't made clear that you expected payment. I thought you just wanted to help! I've actually had the doors professionally done, but didn't say anything as I wanted to spare your feelings." You could treat them to a meal/takeaway to say thank you?!

Have they given you their invoice yet OP?

You need to find out what he is going to charge Op.

If its too much, you could say...I need this price reduced as the work wasn't great.

All of the details are really by the by.
Are you prepared to lose these friends?
If not, suck it up, but learn the lesson.
If you are, just say you are absolutely NOT paying for substandard work done over a ridiculously protracted period.
That’s it.

This is more about your friendship than anything else, and how much value you place on that.

Oh God, this is a situation I'd have got into in my younger days, but you learn by experience never to mix business with pleasure.
I think you should wait for the "invoice" OP. It could be anything from you owe me the sum of 4 bottles of Guinness, to a fee calculated on an hourly rate, (and he's done many hours!).
If it's in the latter category, I think you might have to have a word with him and just say "Gosh, Jim, that's a lot more than we were expecting as I've had to redo some of it, can we negotiate?, how about......Insert figure you'd be happy to pay"

Why would you think he was doing it as a friend when she said at the start they wouldn’t “charge” as much as your original quote? Brushing off the exact price later on doesn’t mean they’re not going to charge you.

It’s as if you got it into your head that “friends don’t charge” despite the fact the friend flagged that they would.

Honestly, this is on you OP.

Surely if a friend said they could do a job cheaper than your quote, you would agree a written price before proceeding? It’s your kitchen!

Yes this absolutely suggests that it wasn’t going to be free! You should have asked what they would charge. All your suggestions of “adding it to your bill” might actually have been taken seriously too!

I get that but letting him do all that work, waste all that time and then just redoing it yourself is going to hurt his feelings way more in the long run. Did you not worry he'd notice you've redone it? How are you going to get out of paying without saying you think the job is substandard?

Hmm difficult. I recently had a quote for some work, which was £2k. Acquaintance/friend said "DH and DS will do that for a much better price"
And I thought no fucking way. It was skilled work that needed someone experienced at doing it.

Painting is a strange thing. Anyone can wave a paintbrush. But to get a really high quality finish, you need skills and experience.

By providing the materials to him, you further endorsed the verbal contact that you agreed to, by not objecting and by not trying to negotiate payment terms.

You didn’t let them know at any time that you didn’t want him to do the work…not even when it was shoddy work that you had to redo.

It is perfectly understandable that you didn’t want to hurt his feelings by complaining but that is exactly why you got into this mess in the first place.

You didn’t like his work, you didn’t want to pay, but for the duration of the time it took, you kept quiet without saying what was on your mind. Big mistake.
You can’t have it both ways OP which is exactly what you’ve tried to do.
Until now.
The onus is on you now, to receive the invoice in good faith in my opinion, and hope it’s very little.
If it’s way beyond reasonable for the work he did, then you can certainly try to negotiate down as you would for any contractor.
If you want to spare his feelings, then you have to continue the same way you have been throughout, and go along with the whole charade and pay up.

The whole thing now rests on the strength of your friendship with them. You have to ask yourself, are they friends whose feelings I want to spare or are they a contractor company.

From a moral point of view, I feel you should pay up a small amount for his time only and put it down to experience. We all learn in this way as we go along in life.

A 60 something friend did her 30 door kitchen in 3 days..
A. Really good job too!

I'd have been crawling the walls with 4 months!

And to have them painted so badly that they then redid it themselves.

This sounds like a nightmare - I hope he doesn’t charge ridiculous amounts

I’d write a check for £50 in an envelope with a thank you card and drop it round, pre-empt their invoice- make it their problem to have an awkward conversation if they want to.

"my friend said we can help we won’t charge anywhere near that."

"Often we’d said add it to the invoice jokingly and my husband has said to them we will take you out for a meal to say thank you."

"We have asked several times “ how much is this going to cost us then".

You can see why they thought you were expecting an invoice @Gilesmummy and the time to complain is when you realise the work is bad. You wouldn't eat a whole restaurant meal and then complain it tasted bad.

Exactly. I started to paint the frames and cornicing but was told I wanted to do that for you..I got a quote from a professional decorator today who is in doing something else and he said oh it’ll be about three days. Prepping inside cupboards and doors fitting new handles everything. And he wanted 550 for the job. My friend has decided he wants £20 per door.. £600! He never gave us the chance to say no .