To not expect to pay

[Gilesmummy]

We moved into a new house which needed lots of work. I got a quote for repainting my kitchen cabinets and my friend said we can help we won’t charge anywhere near that. It was said with humour so I assumed they meant they would help as friends. The husband has been doing the cupboards over a period of four months. It’s not a huge kitchen he has just taken forever.
We let him get on and didn’t push him as we thought he was doing it to be nice.
He has made a dreadful job, so as they’ve come back I’ve redone them myself and not said anything.
now today the wife,my friend, has told me she will be bringing the invoice over on Tuesday
We never really discussed payment (how much or if they were charging ) it never occurred to me that a friend would charge.( He is a retired 80 year old joiner ) Often we’d said add it to the invoice jokingly and my husband has said to them we will take you out for a meal to say thank you. if I was paying I’d have wanted it done properly and sooner. It still not finished and I was planning to redo it all myself and not tell them how bad a job it was.
am I being unreasonable in not expecting to pay and how do I deal with it?

You cannot send someone an invoice when payment has not been discussed! He needed to have given a quote and you agree to it. I'd be honest and say, "I was a little taken aback from your invoice as payment was never discussed. To be honest the paint work isn't great so I've decided to pay professionals to do them properly."

You're going to have to use your words!

It sounds like you deliberately chose to interpret this as a freebie offer, despite them stating otherwise. So of course YABU.

He has undertaken an absolutely enormous task, how bizarre you chose to believe he'd do it for nothing. I'd be so embarrassed to behave like this, this is CF behaviour (on your part) all the way.

Pay him something reasonable for his time and trouble. If you don't want him to continue the work, tell him to stop.

He made it clear he would charge, just less. You shouldn't have accepted shoddy work, you let that go on. No work should have started without agreeing on the cost upfront. For both your sakes.

See what the invoice says first, then make a decision. I depends how much the friendship means to you as to how much of an issue either of you makes things.

I can see how the misunderstanding happened, but if it's his profession then I think you were more in the wrong for thinking they were joking about charging you at all. It is frustrating that the work was so shoddy, I can understand why you're annoyed. Would have been hard to deal with even if you'd thought you were paying so I can kind of see why you just let him continue but think it was a bit cowardly and unkind, really. It's still his time and effort which has been for nothing. Has he not noticed you've redone them all?

I suspect you'll have to choose between your money and your friendship here.

Spreading work out over the course of 4 months is not the same as doing 4 months' work.

YABU because they literally told you he was going to charge. But I wouldn't be happy paying either, by the sounds of it.

You should have stopped him sooner, even if you thought he was doing it for free, why let him carry on?

Based on the conversation at the start 'we will do it cheaper than that'. They never at any point said it was free and implied it was paid.
He is a professional in that craft, albeit not a very good one.
I think you entered into some sort of contract.
And even said to add things to the invoice.
I think youve got yourself into a mess and probably have to pay, I reckon they would win in the small claims court based on this.
A lawyer might give you a better answer.
Also they are your friends, would you want it to get to that?

How much was/is it?

So they said they wouldn’t charge you as much as you’d been quoted (which implies a charge) you asked how much it’d cost but they brushed it off? Yet now they’re going to bill you? For a rubbish job you have to redo? CFs!

It’s sounds like both of you needed better communication. They should have been up-front about the price when you asked. You shouldn’t have agreed until they clarified the price, if any. You should have been up-front about him needing to arrange to come over. And perhaps (kindly) the standard to the work, e.g., “it’s not quite how we wanted it”.

Who paid for the paint? If he only charges you for materials and expenses (e.g. petrol), then surely you pay it. If it’s anywhere near a professional rate, be up-front and assertive and remind them they never gave you the price up-front (despite you asking). And you’re unhappy with the quality, which you weren’t going to say if it was done as a favour, but you’re not prepared to pay for. If you say it sensitively, apologise for your part in any misunderstanding and ask if you can find a compromise, it shouldn’t ruin a solid friendship with reasonable people.

Though depends how ‘bad’ the job is. Also depends on what you can afford, against how much you want to risk hurting the pride of a friend whose professional standards may have slipped in retirement. And how your friend is likely to react against how much you value the friendship. Cost-benefit analysis!

This doesn't seem right to me,. If he was doing a poor job, you'd have stopped him continuing. It feels to me as though you're only deciding it's a bad job because an invoice is coming.

Otherwise, why would you continue allowing someone to make a mess of your kitchen? Doesn't add up.

2 questions

Why would you let an 80 year paint your cupboards?

Where you not there when he was painting, surely you should have been able to see the botch job?

Why would you let him carry on, if it was a shit job he was doing, even if it was free?

First time he did a door and it looked shit you could have said 'actually, I really don't like the look of them repainted, lets stop now and ill cover your time/materials'... if you didn't want to outright say 'you're not as good at this as you think!'.

I don't understand what part of 'I'll do it for less' means 'I'll do it for free' - that part is absolutely on you to have clarified.

What’s on the invoice? I’m invested! Who IS paying for his work? It can’t be that bad if he’s going out?

interested to know the total of the invoice .

In the kindest way, why did you think an 80 year old joiner would be any good at painting kitchen cabinets?

This is not an ageist comment either as my lovely DD was a decorator for 50 years, but he wouldn’t start offering to build kitchen cabinets for a mate when he was 80.

I never said to invoice us..

You didn’t actually tell him to invoice you, no.

But neither did you tell him not to when it was suggested. You didn’t object or question them when they said they wouldn’t charge you anywhere near as much, -and you then went ahead to accommodate him in doing the work. In that way you entered in a sort of verbal contract by not objecting at any stage to the work he was doing. You did (albeit jokingly) say ‘add it to the invoice’ several times, further endorsing that verbal contract to them.

Now, because you failed to agree any terms whatsoever either at the beginning or any time along the course of his work, you have to wait to receive the invoice knowing you allowed yourselves to get into this mess without ever questioning or complaining about the shoddy work.

I know it’s daunting to complain about somebody’s work under these circumstances but you do have to speak up for yourself OP, and there are ways you could have done it kindly without falling out. eg Oh look you’ve missed a bit on this one again but never mind I’ll just redo it quickly myself so we can get finished a bit quicker. Or you could have said…yes add it to the invoice hahahaha but by the way, how much is this going to cost us because we never actually ever agreed a quote (or quality standards or time frame) at all did we.

Let’s hope you are pleasantly surprised at the £ amount they charge and can remain friends, instead of being really upset.
The ideal scenario would be that they only change for any materials, not for their time so that you can say a massive big thank you and arrange a small thoughtful gift and put it down to experience. At least you will have made an elderly gentleman feel useful again. But I’d say to be prepared for anything.
Good luck on Tuesday !

Oh dear. Assumption is the mother of all c*ck ups.

I agree with PPs that their initial remark does mean that they would charge for the work, just not as high an amount as the quote you received from the initial tradesman.

If you have already paid for materials so far and have the old quote, you can work out what labour would have been on the old quote, and there you know you will owe less than that amount for a start.

If you are all friends, hopefully everyone will be reasonable.

Sorry this is on you they said cheaper than others not free. You didn't help matters by jokingly saying add to the invoice. It depends really how much you value the friendship you wouldn't be obligated to pay as no quote was given but I dont understand why you wouldn't have stopped him after the first cabinet if you could see how bad it was. It will end up costing you more now for someone to fix

I’m with everyone else, pay.

By the sounds of it, the wife would have thought it a great project for her retired husband and he seemed reluctant, otherwise surely he would have completed it quicker or at least more regularly. If you’ve been redoing them afterwards, why didn’t you just do them in the first place? Or was it just touching up to make it more refined?

Pay whatever they charge, if the bill comes in as more than your other quote, tell them and negotiate a lower bill, that’s all you can really do. Also, perhaps then need a bit of cash!

After we had a decorator acquaintance/friend (through a club we were in) do so work for us, after he big upped himself, we made a deal to never hire any acquaintance/friend for anything again. We certainly would expect any friend to come into our home and work for free even if they were retired.

I agree!!
I think the shoddy job is being used to try and excuse tight fisted behaviour.

Say he did a terrible job and you had to repaint them all and you won't be paying

I wouldn’t have dreamed of charging them for anything I do.
Have you done anything for them yet? Because if not that's just hypothetical really isn't it lol.

How long in hours has he actually spent doing it? Why would even the most generous person do all that for free? I think you have to realise it's a nice thing for them to do because it's saving you money, at least that was the idea! I think it'd be very mean not to pay.

he told you quite clearly there would be a charge.

what do you think he meant when he said I won’t cost you anywhere near that??

and because you wanted it for free you have painted yourself into a corner and can’t say- well we won’t pay because it’s a bad job.

CF behaviour

This is the problem when you let friends get involved. He is 80 years old so not newly retired so not sure I would have trusted his workmanship as a professional. I agree with others that communication seems to be the issue, when they said they wouldn't charge that they clearly were implying they would charge less, and you should have at this moment said how much would you charge and gone from there. Also the jokes about adding to the invoice reinforced the idea you would be paying.
I expect hiring the other person would have also been faster even if more expensive (this work dragged out for 4 months, I am sure if you were paying someone properly it would have been less stress). Next time don't be so cheap and get quotes from different professionals.