I hate how DS2 speaks about his wife

[ArtyGmam]

I have 2 grown sons, DS1 is 33 and DS2 is 31. Both are married, DS1 has a 2 year old and a newborn, DS1 has a 17 month old. We don’t live locally to them but make a real attempt to see them as often as we can and they both call often.
I have always felt that DS1 is just the kindest, most genuine man on earth, even as a teenager he was a very kind boy, never had any issues with bullying or misbehaviour, just a genuine delight to raise. DS2 was definitely my more challenging child but ultimately he is also lovely and kind and successful and that’s all that matters.
However I have always noticed slight differences in the way my boys treat their partners, DS1 has always been so respectful of the people he has dated or his now wife, even when times are tough and he’s struggling, he would never insult them, makes a real effort to see things from their perspective and to understand. Ever since he met his wife he has acted like he is the luckiest man on earth and it works as she behaves like the luckiest woman on earth, every time I speak to DS1 he just raves about how amazing his daughters and wife are.

DS2 on the other hand has had a fair share of toxic relationships, I’ve had to remind him at times to check the language he is using when talking about women and I’ve had to remind him that you can disagree with someone, be upset at them and even break up with them without having to insult them, especially insults which are opinion based and unrelated to the issue at hand. Lately on calls he keeps saying how frustrated he is with his wife, things like “K didn’t cook today because she was too tired, so bloody lazy” when just 10 minutes before he was telling me how their child didn’t sleep the night before and his wife was already under the weather with a cold. When I try to remind him that he is also able to cook etc. he just goes on about how she is a SAHM so all the house responsibilities are hers. DS1 would never do this, his wife is also a SAHM, but he consistently makes a point of complimenting how appreciative he is of everything she does at home.

It’s really starting to upset me how DS2 speaks, especially when words like lazy, boring, grumpy, nagging etc. come up. Now I am aware I don’t live with them and maybe she just isn’t being totally fair but I maintain insulting your wife to your mother is never the correct approach and it reads to me that he just doesn’t respect her as much as he should, which would line up with how he treated his exes.

AIBU to hate this behaviour and should I call it out more or leave it as it’s not my marriage and I’m just his mum?

Lots of issues there, it seems quite clear that ds1 has always been a clear favourite of yours!
were you a sahm?

I wouldn't like it either OP but surely at 31 he is the finished article. I don't think you'll change him so I wouldn't say anything, just be extra nice to his poor wife.

I’d say your instincts are correct and I would be gently pointing out his wife’s point of view (without taking sides).

That’s an interesting take; I had to go back and re-read the op to see what I missed.

It sounds like the two men have very different personalities and always have, even as teens.

OP I’d be disappointed if one of my sons spoke about his partner and the mother of his child like this, and I’d keep calling it out each time.

It is horrible but what really stuck out for me was that he must have had a tough time always being the least favoured dc. Maybe this behaviour is the outcome.

Could you say something on the lines of how sad and disappointed it makes you feel when he talks about K like that?

If my DM had said that, if I had been referring to DH in those terms, I don't think I would have taken it as interference.

Where is your DS’s father in all this? DH would wipe the floor with our sons if they did this, which, realistically tends to have a much greater effect than me telling them to pull their heads in.

I can’t believe anyone is trying to justify this. OP pointing out different personalities doesn’t mean she favoured one or the other - maybe she did, maybe she didn’t. At the end of the day, this is a 31 year old that has a history of talking down on his partners and at his big age can’t go blame it on mummy anymore.

I would point it out every time he does it. That’s not taking sides, it’s calling out misogyny.

This is sad. Your ds2 seems mean but then hurt people hurt people and your ds1 is clearly your favourite.

Where the hell did you get that from 🤔. It doesn't sound like she has favorites at all, she just wants her DS2 to be more respectful to his wife

Being the sole earner is stressful and having a non sleeper can drive any parents to the edge. He shouldn't bitch at or about his wife, but it sounds as though he probably needs this message to come from someone who sympathises with him.

I'd be offering practical help- but I'd do it to both of them, yes from.a point of view of how tough it is to be a SAHM (does she have no job at all? That's very isolating) but also spare some kindness for your son. Offer to go there and spend a few days looking after the baby so they can have a good night's sleep in a hotel somewhere, bring some food when you visit (ready meals, lasagne), perhaps give them some cash and say, "Only to be spent on nice things like takeaways." Just be annoyingly kind.

The man who gushes about his family is not always the best husband- just to bear in mind.

Op, by any chance did you speak about your “challenging” kid the same way he speaks about his wife? He is more likely just repeating what he saw at home. It must have been difficult for him to grow up with a mother who worshipped a son and disliked the other.

It is no excuse of course, he shouldn’t be speaking like that but… before you decide how to approach the subject consider your own contribution to the creation of this problem and for once, don’t use your other son as an example to follow when you try to correct the problem.

i am not sure you should over involve yourself

Well first of all, just a big well done that you raised two sons who call you regularly and let you into the details of their lives. I don't think you'll get get any better advice than that which you can give to yourself, because anyone who can achieve this is already a very empathetic person. He obviously trusts you so you certainly have some space to pull him up on it, but I'd be offering generalised sentences too about how hard it is with little ones and to remember to be kind to each other because it's important to maintain respect for the future when they're grown up and tha the resentment over harsh words now can remain.

It’s a decent mother and human that can see her child is wrong and point that out.

It’s not having favourites, it’s knowing right from wrong.

I think you are doing the right thing. Just be low key true to yourself and call out the insults every time. My kids are younger but my middle child can be bitchy about a particular friend and I've banned her speaking that way. Either she's a friend, in which case you don't do that, or she's not a friend and then you've room to bitch.

Your sons are two different personality types. That means you had to put more effort in to keep DS2 feeling loved and on track in his emotional development. I’m sure you did that OP, when they were children.

Even with a more challenging personality type, what your son is saying is still very disrespectful. I would continue to do as you did when he was a child and point it out to him each time with words like…I hope you don’t let anybody else hear you talking like that about your wife and child as it’s very inappropriate. Or with words like …I hope your wife can’t hear you talking like that about her or you won’t have a wife for much longer.
He might then get the message, so that he learns not to use those words when chatting with you.

The real problem though is his underlying attitude which seems to be ingrained.
Sadly I think his wife will be the one having to tackle that as a problem in her marriage. All you can do is make sure she feels supported by you.

Two things can be true at the same time - he can be being awful to his wife and also have been made to feel like he is second best all his life. The fact that the OP spent pretty much have the post praising DS2 does seem to point to favorites.

Maybe it’s not the outcome, but who he is. Luckily he’s got a decent mother to pull him into line.

He's allowed to say these things to his mum of all people! Who else can you show your selfish side to? Mums make things better even when they can't. Just because he's moaning to you does not mean he is not a perfect specimen like you perceive your ds1 to be. I say lots of things to my mum that I wouldn't want to be publicly judged on. My moany complaints to her are not a true reflection of my life with my own family.

I think it's clear you have (unwittingly) played favourites because this post, which is ostensibly about DS2, goes on about how the first son is the best thing since sliced bread for ages before getting to the actual issue. It's not really that relevant what the first son is like, siblings are often very different. This dynamic is perhaps something to be aware of in your relationships with them moving forward. As for the remarks, it's ok to put a ban on DS2 saying misogynistic or unkind things about his wife when he speaks to you.

You're telling us @ArtyGmam, what are you saying to your son about it? Perhaps you need to ask him if there are problems in the marriage, set him straight. Perhaps he needs some personal therapy.

Having said that, I've been told some cracking stories, after marriages broke down, about men who appeared the perfect family man to the outside world.

One thing that has soured my relationship with my in laws over the years is the fact that they never called out DP when he was being an arse to me or anyone else.

I couldn't give a shit now they are old and infirm and perhaps need a little extra help (and I'm usually an overly nice person). But the fact they never said anything, when they could have been the only ones to make a difference... I can't forget that.

Do you balance that with nice stuff though?

I wonder if OP son does.

How sad that your son can’t confide in his mother without being judged and compared to his brother.