I hate how DS2 speaks about his wife

[ArtyGmam]

I have 2 grown sons, DS1 is 33 and DS2 is 31. Both are married, DS1 has a 2 year old and a newborn, DS1 has a 17 month old. We don’t live locally to them but make a real attempt to see them as often as we can and they both call often.
I have always felt that DS1 is just the kindest, most genuine man on earth, even as a teenager he was a very kind boy, never had any issues with bullying or misbehaviour, just a genuine delight to raise. DS2 was definitely my more challenging child but ultimately he is also lovely and kind and successful and that’s all that matters.
However I have always noticed slight differences in the way my boys treat their partners, DS1 has always been so respectful of the people he has dated or his now wife, even when times are tough and he’s struggling, he would never insult them, makes a real effort to see things from their perspective and to understand. Ever since he met his wife he has acted like he is the luckiest man on earth and it works as she behaves like the luckiest woman on earth, every time I speak to DS1 he just raves about how amazing his daughters and wife are.

DS2 on the other hand has had a fair share of toxic relationships, I’ve had to remind him at times to check the language he is using when talking about women and I’ve had to remind him that you can disagree with someone, be upset at them and even break up with them without having to insult them, especially insults which are opinion based and unrelated to the issue at hand. Lately on calls he keeps saying how frustrated he is with his wife, things like “K didn’t cook today because she was too tired, so bloody lazy” when just 10 minutes before he was telling me how their child didn’t sleep the night before and his wife was already under the weather with a cold. When I try to remind him that he is also able to cook etc. he just goes on about how she is a SAHM so all the house responsibilities are hers. DS1 would never do this, his wife is also a SAHM, but he consistently makes a point of complimenting how appreciative he is of everything she does at home.

It’s really starting to upset me how DS2 speaks, especially when words like lazy, boring, grumpy, nagging etc. come up. Now I am aware I don’t live with them and maybe she just isn’t being totally fair but I maintain insulting your wife to your mother is never the correct approach and it reads to me that he just doesn’t respect her as much as he should, which would line up with how he treated his exes.

AIBU to hate this behaviour and should I call it out more or leave it as it’s not my marriage and I’m just his mum?

This is really unpleasant. I feel for your DIL in this situation, being a SAHP to very young children when you’re poorly is so hard. It’s good that you have a kinder perspective on this. I would definitely say something to your son. I suspect he’ll be heading for divorce down the line if this continues.

His language is not the best. But is he hoping you will help by offering time with their child? A night off may be what they need. Or is he inadvertently telling you he is unhappily married. I think there is more to this. It probably is best not to compare his situation to his brother they are different people.

1st Rule of Misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3236421-so-these-ere-rules-of-misogyny

He sounds like he doesn’t respect women so he probably won’t listen to you. If his father is around I’d ask him to have a word. My BIL is like this and my inlaws never call him out on it. I have once or twice and it doesn’t go down well with anyone other than my DH but I cannot be complicit.

It's irrelevant though, so it is telling that your other son is even discussed. Totally irrelevant that your other son is marvellous etc, it adds nothing to the issue.

If my son or daughter come to that said a thing like that about their partner they'd be getting a flea in their ear.

Your sons attitude is pretty poor really. I really loathe these men who think that their working day finishes the minute they leave work. How did he come to believe that's right?

This, stop tiptoeing round it. I'd call him out on it - every single time.

Well done for calling him out on it OP. That's all you can do.

Absolutely call it out, you’re still his mum, he’s not too old to hear some advice from his mum. Too many mothers are blind to their sons’ shortcomings and excuse and enable all kinds of bad behaviour. It’s great that you’re not one of them. You’ll be doing him a favour too because if he keeps this up she’ll probably divorce him a few years down the line and he’ll be blindsided.

He’s confiding in you OP, would you prefer he stay unhappy and silent?

Your post could be shortened to: ‘My son is unhappy in his marriage and tells me about it, why can’t he be more like his brother?’

I disagree. We should never excuse men’s poor behaviour towards women and just turn a blind eye.

The more people who speak up and challenge it the more likely it is to change.

I think it's significant that, even on a thread just about DS2's behaviour, she's still comparing him with DS1

There was no need to even mention having DS1 at all, far less compare them

Yes OP, call out his attitude. A partner unwell, trying to entertain a toddler all day - exhausting - and he complaining he has to make his own dinner?
Shameful. He needs to know it.

You have to continue to parent your son because I’m afraid you haven’t finished the job.

Why on earth can’t he iron his own shirt or make his own meal.

What have his parents been modelling to him?

Man treats women like shit.

Mumsnet: It’s his mother’s fault.

Fucks sake.

My toxic trait is that DS1 sounds like a creepy crawler to me 😣

Because some people want to blame women for men's behaviour. Simple as that. Never the man's fault - he can't just be a dickhead.

I just want to say well done you for calling your son out on his behaviours. Not all mothers would do this.

Not read everyone’s posts. I’d be pointing out that if wife was working they would be paying someone to look after their child, which means it’s a full time job. I’d then point out if wife was working full time and kids were in childcare, after work the kids would need looking after and the house would need cleaning and the food need cooking - would he fob all that onto his wife also? If he would, I’d tell him he’s an idiot and his wife should leave him. Tell him he should be batch making meals at a weekend for them all to eat, and have some in the freezer for this exact situation. Tell him alpha men are not real men and his wife wants a partner not be a slave to him and the kids. Also I’d remind him that if he does nothing around the house what is the point of him being in a relationship but if he lived alone he would have to work and do all the cleaning and cooking and juggle 50% of the childcare. Tell him to get off the misogynistic podcasts grow a pair and become a partner to his wife and stop being a man child.

How can some posters justify the son’s misogynistic language and behaviour? He might not be happy in his marriage but he doesn’t have to be misogynistic.

I would call him out on misogynistic comments all the time. Do you talk to him about how much parenting and household work he does when he is not at work?

Do you message DILs separately from sons?

Absolutely stunned by this response, basically blaming the op. Why blame a man for his own behaviour when you can find a nearby woman.

appalling.

I’m actually quite surprised by some of the responses here.
So a husband speaks badly of his wife, rather than it being his fault it’s his mums.
Yet again poor male behaviour getting excused because it’s a females fault!

Depends, is he actually speaking to his wife like that? Or is he venting to you as a person of trust so he doesn't air his frustration with her?

Agreed - what on earth are some of these responses? 'He's mean to women because his mummy liked his big brother more than him growing up'? The level of reach based on zero facts is astounding.

Quite shocking that so many responses are blaming the OP and inventing a favouritism that there's no evidence of in her post. Woman concerned about a man's potentially abusive and definitely toxic pattern behaviour - all her fault!

OP, all you can really do is call it out. I know you say you've been doing that occasionally but I'd do it every time he says something nasty about his wife, and I wouldn't hold back or mince my words - in fact I'd give him a proper bollocking.

Don't compare him to his brother, that will go down terribly. Don't bring up stuff you've observed but keep it to the things he's directly said to you (ie, you're not interfering in their marriage but responding to the things he's made your business). Definitely point out it's a toxic pattern of misogynistic behaviour across his relationships.