I hate how DS2 speaks about his wife

[ArtyGmam]

I have 2 grown sons, DS1 is 33 and DS2 is 31. Both are married, DS1 has a 2 year old and a newborn, DS1 has a 17 month old. We don’t live locally to them but make a real attempt to see them as often as we can and they both call often.
I have always felt that DS1 is just the kindest, most genuine man on earth, even as a teenager he was a very kind boy, never had any issues with bullying or misbehaviour, just a genuine delight to raise. DS2 was definitely my more challenging child but ultimately he is also lovely and kind and successful and that’s all that matters.
However I have always noticed slight differences in the way my boys treat their partners, DS1 has always been so respectful of the people he has dated or his now wife, even when times are tough and he’s struggling, he would never insult them, makes a real effort to see things from their perspective and to understand. Ever since he met his wife he has acted like he is the luckiest man on earth and it works as she behaves like the luckiest woman on earth, every time I speak to DS1 he just raves about how amazing his daughters and wife are.

DS2 on the other hand has had a fair share of toxic relationships, I’ve had to remind him at times to check the language he is using when talking about women and I’ve had to remind him that you can disagree with someone, be upset at them and even break up with them without having to insult them, especially insults which are opinion based and unrelated to the issue at hand. Lately on calls he keeps saying how frustrated he is with his wife, things like “K didn’t cook today because she was too tired, so bloody lazy” when just 10 minutes before he was telling me how their child didn’t sleep the night before and his wife was already under the weather with a cold. When I try to remind him that he is also able to cook etc. he just goes on about how she is a SAHM so all the house responsibilities are hers. DS1 would never do this, his wife is also a SAHM, but he consistently makes a point of complimenting how appreciative he is of everything she does at home.

It’s really starting to upset me how DS2 speaks, especially when words like lazy, boring, grumpy, nagging etc. come up. Now I am aware I don’t live with them and maybe she just isn’t being totally fair but I maintain insulting your wife to your mother is never the correct approach and it reads to me that he just doesn’t respect her as much as he should, which would line up with how he treated his exes.

AIBU to hate this behaviour and should I call it out more or leave it as it’s not my marriage and I’m just his mum?

Rubbish, she is just stating the facts. My sons are 12 and 14 and what she says about their younger years really resonates with me as I feel very similar about their personalities.

Well done OP for pulling him up on his language, you are doing the right thing.

To be fair- ds2 wife is a sahm to a 17 month old. It can be tiresome- I have been there (sahm 2 boys, 1 autistic) but there is normally a division of labour. For me it was home (cooking, cleaning) and my children. My DH worked/works hard long hours and his contribution was mainly financial and ofcourse spending time with the boys during the week-end (taking both of them out so I could have a break:). While I appreciate this could be different depending on how many children-ages/type of work etc it's something they need to discuss.

So @ArtyGmam I would ask your son if they hadn't worked out this btw them before she became a sahm. And that if she worked there should be no expectation on her doing more labour at home than him and that her earnings might be gone in cost of childcare anyway so not necessarily any financial gain.

Also maybe you are his only safe space to have a rant. I could rant about my dh shortcomings to close friends with the understanding that it was just a rant.

Absolutely mad that a mother comes here to ask for advice on her son’s behaviour and somehow posters are finding a way to blame his behaviour on her.

People (I had thought mostly men!) need to take accountability for bad attitudes towards women - and here’s a group of women having the exact same attitude. It’s depressing.

OP, I think all you can do is continue calling it out and be a support to his wife. She’s lucky to have you on her side!

Op:: I have ds issues

mn user: must be your parenting
🙄

Fair point. Yes I do. It's not all bad 😂

You're not wrong about his attitude. But I think you need to stop comparing him to his brother, even if you're only doing it internally, it is totally irrelevant and doesn't help anyone. Even utter arseholes can say all the right things in public.

I think it’s good to hear you are picking your son up on this and sticking g up for your DIL.

I don’t actually have a favourite however I appreciate the nature of this post does make it seem like I do.
Considering this was a post where I was talking about a specific behaviour of DS2 I don’t like and I was using DS1 as a positive example of what I think is the ideal behaviour, of course it will look like i
prefer DS1.
I don’t though, I love both my children equally but I am also able to acknowledge they are individuals and have different traits. If we were talking about who is better at gift giving then it would sound like I prefer DS2, or who was better at knowing when to wrap up a story (DS1 can talk for hours about topics that only he would ever care about).
I don’t believe parents should see their children as perfect, and I don’t see my children as perfect they both have strengths and flaws.

It does sound like you favour DS1.
let's reverse the genders and imagine this is a daughter moaning to her mum that her husband isn't pulling his weight. unfair division of labour turns into resentment and if you can't offload some frustration to your own mother than who can you offload to?
Real life isn't perfect nor are people.

presumably he is right
perhaps she is lazy?

How much contact do you have with DIL2? DS2 is obviously toxic and misogynistic, from what you've said. I'd make a point of speaking regularly to DIL2 , telling her how brilliant she is, how proud you are etc. Model how DS2 should behave and speak.

It's worth taking time and making an effort. If DIL2 leaves your not very nice son, she might need your support amd love

Start supporting and loving her, in obvious ways, now

Could DS1 have a chat with DS2? Are they close?

I’d just try and help them both like some one thread suggested. They are both in the trenches so if you can, baby sit over night , maybe give cash for a spa day, cook for them once a week or send vouchers cook do lovely ready meals for families I think you said you aren’t local. Could you afford to pay for a cleaner for them?

Dw OP my two kids aren't the same either. Nobody's are.

Mn is a tiresome place sometimes, everyone is a wannabe therapist and look too deeply when there's no real need.

Ops post is about the poor behaviour of ds2, yet when talking about them as children praises ds1 lots.. and one word about ds2.. ‘challenging’
*I have always felt that DS1 is just the kindest, most genuine man on earth, even as a teenager he was a very kind boy, never had any issues with bullying or misbehaviour, just a genuine delight to raise. DS2 was definitely my more challenging child•.

So sorry. Same here. I used to do a lot, including making sure little DC visited when husband couldn’t be bothered, making them crafts with DC and inviting them. When my husband became foul to me an appalling SIL who never left home joined in and seemed to encourage it. PIL sat by. They also could have made a difference. Not sure if they were scared of their son or he grew up in an abusive environment. Anyway, they did nothing to stop it and have also completely messed up SIL who stayed at home with MH issues and had no outside help.

Is he just venting to his mum or does he talk badly to his wife? Is he working a lot of hours to keep things going with his wife not working and is he also kept awake half the night with the baby? It's not ideal but there can be a lot of stress in these situations. Other son may get equally stressed but not express it.

Agree with this, a grown man who has control over his actions is excused and blame placed on his mummy.

Because objectively DS2 was more challenging, that doesn’t impact how much I love him and it didn’t impact how much I loved him then either, but they were individuals and had different traits. DS1 kept his room tidy, was always on top of his homework, never got called into school for him once.
DS2 was cheeky and generally pushed limits more. That doesn’t make him less loveable. I was acknowledging that these are traits they’ve shown since childhood, it’s not new. That’s okay they are allowed to have different traits and personalities.

If you asked my sons who my favourite child is they’d say the dog!

How can anyone say it must have been difficult for OP’s ds2 to grow up with a mother who “worshipped one son and disliked the other”?
There’s nothing in OP’s post to indicate any such thing, she’s just describing their different natures, which ultimately have very little to do with her.

I have three brothers. The eldest is a piece of work, a clear favourite of DM, who spent his entire married life complaining about his wife to DM, and anyone else who’d listen (I’m not saying OP’s ds2 is this bad) which was nauseating, frankly, a man in his 50s still bitching about his wife to his mum. Younger brother really was treated badly as a child, by both parents, yet he’s been a good husband and father, in addition to being massively more successful than the rest of us. Quite simply, he’s a much nicer person than his brother. Sometimes nature does have way more to do with these things than nurture.

He works average hours, it’s never really valid complaints in my opinion, such as he will acknowledge his wife was the one up with their baby all night, but then complain that she didn’t iron his shirt for work or make his dinner.
I think it’s fair to expect her to carry most of the household and childcare weight but surely when his child is unwell and not sleeping well it’s a bit of a push to call his wife lazy when she’s probably just exhausted?

I just always get the feeling he doesn’t actually like his wife very much. He almost never compliments her. It’s not as though the complaints are situational and rare, but rather constant and unchanging.

Do you visit DS2 much? Do you have much contact with his wife?

It does sound concerning and like your DS2 has form for misogyny in romantic relationships.

I'm not sure what you can do about it though. I found my Mat Leave very difficult with the dynamic with my DH out at work. So much of my work was unseen (like overnight). Would your DIL want to go back to work? I found that best for me; there's nowhere to hide if they are both working. It is horrible to be another adult's servant and to be found wanting, just bloody awful and not for me.

Do your DSs spend much time together?

Point taken @ArtyGmam it sounds like you are a lovely person trying to do their best for everyone. I don't think posters discussing favoritism are trying to put blame anywhere it was just quite striking the way the post compared the two brothers, and it can be useful to bear this in mind because any hint of this to DS2 might only inflame the situation.
I think the best course of action here has already been mentioned. It's their relationship and you don't really know the ins and outs but you can be clear about not tolerating nasty language even while offering DS2 empathy and space to vent.

I do try to visit as much as I can but I am a flight away so it’s hard to do as much less than a weekend trip and I appreciate they don’t always want me around that much!
I think his wife is lovely, she’s very sweet and quite quiet around me.
DS1 and DS2 don’t actually meet up that much, they used to be very close until DS2 started dating his wife then they drifted a little. DS1s wife does make a real effort with everyone in the family though and meets up with DS2s wife with the children about once a week.

perhaps their marriage is in trouble op

I think you are getting some really unfair comments. The Gottman institute has some really good articles around the Four Horsemen of a doomed marriage. Contempt of your partner is one of them. Maybe you could suggest your son considers it for the health of his marriage. Its such a disruptive time having a baby but they need to be on the same team supporting each other not judging each other etc etc. Im sure he won't want to but it sounds like therapy would help.