I hate how DS2 speaks about his wife

[ArtyGmam]

I have 2 grown sons, DS1 is 33 and DS2 is 31. Both are married, DS1 has a 2 year old and a newborn, DS1 has a 17 month old. We don’t live locally to them but make a real attempt to see them as often as we can and they both call often.
I have always felt that DS1 is just the kindest, most genuine man on earth, even as a teenager he was a very kind boy, never had any issues with bullying or misbehaviour, just a genuine delight to raise. DS2 was definitely my more challenging child but ultimately he is also lovely and kind and successful and that’s all that matters.
However I have always noticed slight differences in the way my boys treat their partners, DS1 has always been so respectful of the people he has dated or his now wife, even when times are tough and he’s struggling, he would never insult them, makes a real effort to see things from their perspective and to understand. Ever since he met his wife he has acted like he is the luckiest man on earth and it works as she behaves like the luckiest woman on earth, every time I speak to DS1 he just raves about how amazing his daughters and wife are.

DS2 on the other hand has had a fair share of toxic relationships, I’ve had to remind him at times to check the language he is using when talking about women and I’ve had to remind him that you can disagree with someone, be upset at them and even break up with them without having to insult them, especially insults which are opinion based and unrelated to the issue at hand. Lately on calls he keeps saying how frustrated he is with his wife, things like “K didn’t cook today because she was too tired, so bloody lazy” when just 10 minutes before he was telling me how their child didn’t sleep the night before and his wife was already under the weather with a cold. When I try to remind him that he is also able to cook etc. he just goes on about how she is a SAHM so all the house responsibilities are hers. DS1 would never do this, his wife is also a SAHM, but he consistently makes a point of complimenting how appreciative he is of everything she does at home.

It’s really starting to upset me how DS2 speaks, especially when words like lazy, boring, grumpy, nagging etc. come up. Now I am aware I don’t live with them and maybe she just isn’t being totally fair but I maintain insulting your wife to your mother is never the correct approach and it reads to me that he just doesn’t respect her as much as he should, which would line up with how he treated his exes.

AIBU to hate this behaviour and should I call it out more or leave it as it’s not my marriage and I’m just his mum?

I do actually agree with this.

Also, having one SAHP can really affect a relationship. Yes it’s obviously great for the child/ren, but it can result in an imbalance in the dynamics of that relationship that wasn’t there before and, in your DS’s case, a lack of appreciation for what the SAHP does, along with a resentment that they get to stay at home (which is generally perceived as “easier”) but don’t manage to do some of the basics like keep the house clean and tidy. Neither person is wrong, but their perspectives which were previously aligned are now polarised and it’s not unreasonable for either person to want to vent about it to a trusted third party, in this case their mother.

I think this is a bit reductive and is not true. You can love your children equally while finding one easier to like/get on with. But I agree that at 31 he isn’t going to change much, though as his mother I would probably pull him up gently on the comments and say that being SAHM to a young child is tiring (especially if their sleep is poor) and the key to a happy relationship is working as a team, not criticising your partner for not having your dinner on the table.

Is he saying these things to his wife or is he having a bit of a rant in confidence to you? But I do understand how you feel as I would hate it if my son had that kind of mindset towards women.

It’s 2025 and both your sons in their early 30s are earning enough to support whole families? And have both married women who were willing to give up their careers and independence to raise dc? Nowt as queer as folk.

I’d be taking the piss out of son and wondering why he can’t put a pizza in the oven or run an iron over his own shirt, and how grateful he must be that an adult woman was willing to lower herself to marry such a useless buffoon in the first place.

I strongly disagree. This man is saying his wife has to do everything as she’s a sahm, complaining she’s lazy when she’s been up all night and hasn’t cooked his dinner, odds are he is saying it to his wife, but even if he’s not, that’s what he thinks.

I would call it out, or be very tempted to, but if he is very much a wanker, then he might be likely to pull away from you if he truly believes he’s god’s gift and can’t raise more consciousness about his ways. So there’s that risk.

He’s an adult and you can’t raise him any further at the end of the day. He’ll either be receptive to change or he won’t be.

I’m not sure I could stay mute when I hear bullshit like that though.

One has a newborn so would be on mat leave anyway, so you don’t know this is the case for both.

The thing I never understand is why do men, when having their first child, expect their workload to decrease?

If you were cooking for yourself, tidying up after yourself, doing your laundry...before you became a parent, why is it now feet up after work time? Why also do so many people, including a large proportion of MN agree?? It has always been baffling to me.

The person you are now expecting to do this for you is recovering from pregnancy and childbirth, is not sleeping through, night after night, possibly feeding the child from their own body. Likely to have vitamin deficiencies from blood loss and breast feeding.

It is such a, society approved, lack of humanity. He is going to work, same as before. Not a special soldier just because he is earning a salary, he would be doing that anyway. The only way I have found to deal wuth this fuckwittery is to earn a salary myself. That is not the answer though, the answer is men need to take on more unpaid caring and domestic work.

I still do far more caring and domestic jobs than DH. The difference is everyone thinks I'm a bloody saint now, (including DH and his parents) which is easier to deal with.

Absolute rubbish.

Also, pointing out that one child has better character traits does not necessarily make them a favourite.

Since when was bitching about someone unfairly, classed as 'confiding'?! And since when was it not a mothers job to correct bad behaviour?

Op could you try saying to ds2

Im feeling worried about you. I have noticed lately you make a lot of negative comments about K. I know this is not how you usually are and I worry that something is not going right for you marriage wise or work wise. I know you appriciate K and everything she does so when you say thinkgs like "she is lazy" after she was up all night with your baby. As your mother I cant help but worry about you. Is there anything dad and I can do to help?

This is calling him out but also showing you believe in him and worry about him.

It may be they need some marriage counselling to learn how to communicate better.

So you are blaming the op a woman for the way her son treats women ?

Op you are going to have to call him out on the language he is using, it doesn't matter how your other son is, this son sounds misogynistic and sexist. Just because she is at home with the baby doesn't mean she is his skivvy, he could help her, he is choosing not to,

Do you suspect DS2 is being abusive? Often it presents as a gut instinct and an understanding of how weird he’s behaving in comparison to other men his age. If I were you I’d probably try and meet with his wife alone and understand what’s going on.

I think this is a good approach. Even though it does sound as if he has always been a bit of a misogynist.

Yes that, is probably better than the direct approach.

I agree with this approach as you are more likely to actually get somewhere with him, with people like this, any sign of confrontation they get defensive and then dont actually take in what you are saying at all.
Im shocked people are saying stay out of it - by staying silent when someone's being misogynistic you are complicit.
I will never forget an awful ex partners mother standing up for me with him, her kindness made such a difference to me.

Both have married women who are happy not to work. One is ok with that, the other is feeling resentful. But he should use his words and discuss that with her, rather than make comments.

@ArtyGmam I’ve read what your DS says to you about his wife and it’s exactly what DH would say to me. Possibly did to his DM, I don’t know.

He opted out of helping to bring up DDs and told everyone that Ohdear does the children. He, of course, worked for money and that mattered so much more. I got pretty used to it and did less and less for him. Who needs this constant commentary on perceived failure?

So I’d try and speak to his wife. Is he saying all this to her? If he is, they don’t have a great marriage and he doesn’t respect her. I have a suspicion you know this. I would say to him that he’s speaking poorly about the mother of his child and if he carries on like that, he’s got a problem. I stayed because DH earned a lot. I got a cleaner. In other circumstances I might not have done.

My DH wanted all the attention. (Only child) He saw himself as special and entitled. He was jealous of the children taking my time. He didn’t like not being the only person being looked after and didn’t really enjoy being a dad. Loud complaints if ever asked to change a nappy so opted out of that. Never did anything for dc when they were little at all. So if your son is behaving like this, get the view of your DiL. I wouldn’t be ironing his shirt either. There’s trouble brewing if he’s behaving like an additional baby.

So try and get to the bottom on what’s happening. Are they managing to get out? What about holidays and does he help with dc? Does he engage with dc? Hope he stops worrying you and I am pleased you are showing concern.

Completely agree.

We’ve all been raised differently - even siblings that share the same parents.

He’s 31, a husband and a parent - he needs to grow up. You sound so lovely for truly caring about your DIL and being uncomfortable with his behaviour.

I love my kids, but I’d also go nuts if they did anything close to this. It’s my job to parent - which includes calling them out if they’re wrong. My oldest is still only a teen and he’s a lot like your DS1.

You have to let him know you disagree - but your way. Set your boundary about what you are and aren’t prepared to listen to. Also, make sure you check in with your DIL, to let her know someone appreciates her.

Yes call him out on it. Explain to him very bluntly that if he isn't on call or at work 24/7, neither should she be. That her job as a SAHM is to care for the children during the day and when he gets home, the jobs are shared between them. His lack of compassion is a sign of pathetic weakness. Can he only feel good about himself if he is putting his partner, the mother of his children, down? He needs to show her kindness, love, respect, and ensure she gets regular breaks from the drudgery. if he doesn't think it is hard work, then it's no big deal for him to step up and do some of it. And if he does find it hard work, her needs to make the very tiny mental leap to realising she finds it hard too, and needs a break.

My mum once said to my brother: I will always love you because you are my son, but if you carry on treating your wife like that I will never like or respect you again.

It shocked him. He changed for the better.

I agree you are absolutely not unreasonable about the way he speaks about his wife. It’s totally unreasonable of him and he needs to be pulled up about his attitude in no uncertain terms. It’s not just the things he says to you, it’s the mindset behind them.

Yes, he should be able to confide in his Mum, but it needs to be in terms of his feelings not insults to his wife. For example “‘Mum, im feeling a bit frustrated that Susie didn’t do x” would be fine, and an opener to talk it through with him.

”Susie is so bloody lazy” isn’t acceptable though, especially when they have a young toddler who isn’t sleeping.

I do think there seem to be some background issues where YABU though - it does sound like his brother has been somewhat the favourite and golden child for many years. This could have subconsciously contributed to his attitude. No excuse for how he behaves towards his wife, but something to think about.

This is all very good advice too.

He sounds awful.
I couldn't listen to my son speak about his wife like that and he would know it.
If that is how he speaks to her with a baby, he sounds abusive.
I hope she has family nearby to support and protect her.

I understand concerns but to play devil's advocate, maybe you are his safe place to have a bit of a vent when he's stressed out as you're his mum. It's great that he can talk to you openly about his relationship and even better that you will not just automatically take his side and advocate for your dil if needed.

I don't really have advice but I think those things could be seen as positive.