Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Darlington nurse case flying under the radar

235 replies

hardstareglare · 07/11/2025 16:24

Aibu to think that the Darlington nurse case in court right now has not had much press and that it is a very important case.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
SidewaysOtter · 09/11/2025 20:11

nauticant · 08/11/2025 21:10

Mind you, if this had been presented to Arthur Miller, he'd have rubbed his hands in glee and immediately set to work on The Crucible II.

I’m always struck by the parallels between the Salem witch trials, McCarthyism and the imposition of gender ideology.

Same shit, different century.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 09/11/2025 20:53

Yes. There seems to be a certain kind of personality that just latches on and goes nuts when the circumstances come together, regardless of the century or specific focus of the time.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 09/11/2025 20:57

How can the people that did this to Karen think they have an ounce of humanity??

Exactly this. No normal person would think 'I'm being a good person coercing this non consenting woman to accept a man that she has a live accusation of sexual harassment be present and handing instruments as she lies on an operating table unconscious and with her vagina exposed'. It's abhorrent. It's devoid of the most basic social care for others.

I saw a comment this week online that it was odd how the people shouting 'be kind!' at you are often in fact the nastiest and most unkind people you've ever met.

BundleBoogie · 09/11/2025 21:01

NebulousSadTimes · 09/11/2025 18:04

Jesus. Shuddering. Christ.

Do you know if she has sought the training for herself, is it part of the course or is it a thing that all female students are recommended to do?

It’s a compulsory part of the course apparently. Horrifying.

Helleofabore · 09/11/2025 21:28

SaveMeFromHumanity · 09/11/2025 18:20

So selfish 🙄

I mean, you've used a lot fo words to talk about and centre women's needs, blah, blah, blah and NOT ONCE have you even stopped to consider how this might make some men feel! 🙄

Why can't you just stop thinking about women for just one minute and spare a thought for the most vulnerable members of society - men!

Its definitely not a mental illness but these are definitely also the most vulnerable members of society and alll women must step aside for them and 'bekind'! And not upset them by speaking truths to them or using factual words that might hurt their feelings so we are also going to change the words you can use to describe yourselves and your experiences. But also, there are so few of them that it's hardly worth you even bothering your pretty little head about. Not prettier than these men though! Gosh, no.

So we're going to let them win beauty pageants (whatever you think about them). Ooh and woman of the year and women in business and sports woman of the year awards. After all, you don't really appreciate what it is to be a woman. You were just born as one and some of you aren't even doing it properly. You don't dress sexily, you don't always wear make up, sometimes you wear jeans, you don't always shave and you don't like being wolf whistled at. It's women who aren't womaning properly! Leave it to the men. They do it so much better.

And just stop talking about gross stuff like biological matters. How reductive! Surely you understand that women are so much more than biology? How can you even claim to have women's interests at heart when you're reducing them to bodily functions in this way??

Oh, and don't talk about pregnancy and the realities of that because some men really struggle with the fact they can't carry a baby and lactate and become mothers. So much so that they even take chemicals and hormones to stimulate lactation and turn up to breastfeeding classes and force the other women to go along with their fantasies. Or hide in public toilets and take used tampons out of sanitary bins and stick them up their arses while they have a wank. Women who don't understand this are unaware of their privilege.

Pretty much sums up how these points have been responded to whenever they've been raised over the past 10+ years.

Oh and the point about tampons - there's a whole subreddit devoted to it and men sharing when they've done it. Along with a subreddit of intact males who've had breast implants wearing lingerie and showing off their erections. I've seen it. That was a happy day👍

We have just been told on another thread that a male person who believes they are a women offered a male poster’s sister a tampon in the women’s loo and apparently that was #womenhelpingwomen. I kid you not.

Apparently, this male person carrying around tampons in case of a female person needing them was in no way creepy but was a very kind person providing assistance.

If this is true, some people have non existent boundaries or no idea of appropriate behaviour.

MyLittleCatMan · 09/11/2025 21:35

It’s like hitting our wee heads of a brick wall :-(

hardstareglare · 09/11/2025 21:46

Helleofabore · 09/11/2025 21:28

We have just been told on another thread that a male person who believes they are a women offered a male poster’s sister a tampon in the women’s loo and apparently that was #womenhelpingwomen. I kid you not.

Apparently, this male person carrying around tampons in case of a female person needing them was in no way creepy but was a very kind person providing assistance.

If this is true, some people have non existent boundaries or no idea of appropriate behaviour.

Yuk. massive red flag.

Which thread?

OP posts:
POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 09/11/2025 21:49

Helleofabore · 09/11/2025 16:29

What also was not considered is the female toilet usage includes activities outside of the ability to lock the door.

It is like there is a group of people who have never in their life needed to use a toilet facility where what they needed didn't fit neatly into a toilet cubicle with a locked door. How great for them!

Here is that list of toilet usage this is just my own experience:

I have had to use the toilet while having a pram / pushchair jammed into the door with groceries.

I have had to have my mum use the public toilet because the disable toilet was not available and had her wheelchair jammed in the door because I couldn't leave her sit to move it and shut the door.

I have had breastmilk leaks / children's vomit / food spilled on my clothes and needed to have an unbuttoned top to dry the top under the hand drier.

I have come across other women quite regularly washing out their tops or their skirts etc and drying them enough to put back on .

I have friends who have miscarried in toilets and needed assistance and for that to be female people to make it more comfortable.

I went to the pub the other night and there was a woman dealing with a spilled wine on her top.

Toilets are not just used behind a closed cubicle door. There are quite a few aspects of female toilet usage that happen in the public space, or even now still occur with a toilet door jammed open.

So, this push for 'unisex' toilets with just locked cubicles etc also really doesn't work in practice, women still need female single sex toilet provision. Imagine waiting for a woman to dry out her top in one cubicle while there is a line forming. It just doesn't work the way people demand that it does.

My mother lost all her teeth in her early 40's due to undiagnosed diabetes-related dental abscesses and had to wear full dentures. My half-sister lost all her top teeth in an accident when she was 14 and had to wear dentures.

Both had to go to the Ladies to take out their dentures and brush them after eating outside the home. Tolerable in an environment populated by women but it would be utterly humiliating if men were around.

We know what men are like for mocking and ridiculing women and, because of their instinctive sexualised responses, some would find this disgusting and be likely to express this openly there and then or behind their backs with friends.

There are so many reasons, impossible to count, why it is degrading, humiliating and unsafe for men to be allowed to share women's toilets and changing rooms.

Boiledbeetle · 09/11/2025 21:55

MyLittleCatMan · 09/11/2025 21:35

It’s like hitting our wee heads of a brick wall :-(

Over It Ugh GIF

There's a gif for that.

OP posts:
Gymnopedie · 09/11/2025 22:09

OdeToTheNorthWestWind · 09/11/2025 19:34

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

Tim Davie and Deborah Turness resign.

Well it's a start, but watch this space.........

Nothing about the Trump piece, the trans censorship or Israel/Gaza though.

eta: and no apology for anything.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 09/11/2025 22:12

It was a shame he derailed Arabella's thread, it was really interesting to see how the shift in public opinion has gone in one direction across all demographics, slow clap for the TRAs who are slowly and successfully alienating everyone with their entitled and utterly batshit ideology, behaviour, and demands👏

The thread is a worthwhile read for both the interesting survey results and discussion, as well as to see an example of how a men's rights activist invader on the feminism forum behaves.

hardstareglare · 09/11/2025 22:28

CohensDiamondTeeth · 09/11/2025 22:12

It was a shame he derailed Arabella's thread, it was really interesting to see how the shift in public opinion has gone in one direction across all demographics, slow clap for the TRAs who are slowly and successfully alienating everyone with their entitled and utterly batshit ideology, behaviour, and demands👏

The thread is a worthwhile read for both the interesting survey results and discussion, as well as to see an example of how a men's rights activist invader on the feminism forum behaves.

Just read it.
TRA is unbelievable

OP posts:
POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 09/11/2025 22:40

hardstareglare · 09/11/2025 21:59

JFC!

100% That Didn't Happen. Betting that the person posting that is one of those "women with penises" (though possibly castrated?).

The User Name "Gnasher" is also suspiciously close to one of the online pseudonyms of the individual who was ordered by the High Court to pay £45K in damages to a woman he libelled on Twitter/X:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2021/1709.html

Same person:

Trans activist who boasted of her violence and said on Twitter she had drawn up a 'kill list' of opponents of gender ideology is rejected by the Women's Institute
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11997053/Trans-activist-boasted-violence-rejected-Womens-Institute.html

SaveMeFromHumanity · 10/11/2025 02:24

Helleofabore · 09/11/2025 21:28

We have just been told on another thread that a male person who believes they are a women offered a male poster’s sister a tampon in the women’s loo and apparently that was #womenhelpingwomen. I kid you not.

Apparently, this male person carrying around tampons in case of a female person needing them was in no way creepy but was a very kind person providing assistance.

If this is true, some people have non existent boundaries or no idea of appropriate behaviour.

Also look up Jessica Yaniv, who used to post on Twitter (as it was then) a fair bit talking how often young girls would/might approach him in a public toilet and ask for a tampon. It is a recognised 'thing'. There are a lot of trans identifying men who find themselves being approached by women and girls and asking them for tampons. It's part of their fantasy role play because they like to imagine that's what women do. Abd it sexually arouses them.

Anyway, Yaniv wanted to know whether he should offer to show 10 you how to insert tampons and how he should offer to do this.

There were a concerning number of young women trying to genuinely advise him on how to respond!

He was discussed extensively on FWR as he was very keen to talk about it despite 100% of actual born women acknowledging that this wasn't something a single one of us had ever had to contend with.

SaveMeFromHumanity · 10/11/2025 02:38

One of the main things that was pointed out was that

Firatly, women very rarely approach other women and ask fir tampons (I'm in my 50s and never asked or been asked).

Secondly, if a woman were to ask, they'd ask an actual woman, who might actually have one on them, and not a bloke in a dress, who would have absolutely no need for one,

But despite these facts, there are many, many men online who like to talk about how often it happens.

It's up there with women having pillow fights in our underwear in the limited imaginations of fetishistic men. Something else that they discuss with each other online and reassure each other that, when that time comes (the spomtaneous pillow fight with real women) all the difficulties around coming out as trans will be worth it.

I don't need to ask how many of us have found ourselves actually having a pillow fight with our besties in our knickers to know its none. But it happens to transwomen all the time. Apparently.

NebulousSadTimes · 10/11/2025 09:38

BundleBoogie · 09/11/2025 21:01

It’s a compulsory part of the course apparently. Horrifying.

It is fucking astounding. Again putting the responsibility onto the potential victims rather than, you know, putting a bit of thought or discussion into how to deal with those who are causing the problem. But they'll have done their bit by insisting on the self defence classes. That's okay then.

What the fuck happened to people.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 10/11/2025 11:11

NebulousSadTimes · 10/11/2025 09:38

It is fucking astounding. Again putting the responsibility onto the potential victims rather than, you know, putting a bit of thought or discussion into how to deal with those who are causing the problem. But they'll have done their bit by insisting on the self defence classes. That's okay then.

What the fuck happened to people.

The reality is that you cannot stop patients, members of the public and even other staff from trying to attack you, so a responsible employer sets up systems to minimise the risk and equips staff to protect themselves and deescalate threatening behaviour. Students need the same protection.

In the 1970's, as students of a predominantly female health care profession, "protect yourself" training was part of our preparation for student placements in the NHS, eg. try to never let a patient or member of the public get between you and the door; if there is a Panic Button on the underside of the desk, make sure you can reach it easily and discreetly.

From the late 1980's, there was greater awareness of the need to protect staff and enable them to protect themselves, due to the work of the Suzy Lamplugh Trust: www.suzylamplugh.org/

Working for NHS Community Services (mostly female staff), the local police provided annual "Self Defence" classes (can't remember if that what was they were actually called). They covered everything from being aware of your surroundings, parking in "safer" places, deescalation techniques to basic physical self-defence and everyone was issued with a free Rape Alarm.

Managers also set up "Lone Working" systems to minimise risk.

For example, every morning the manager of one of the community departments (which were scattered across the city) would contact the police to find out if there was any intelligence about "danger spots" where staff should not go at all or should only go to in pairs. They would then ask if their staff had any information to add and next ring around all the other Depts to let them know the score. When ringing around they would also ask if the staff of each Dept had any information to add. To give time for this ring-around to be completed at least once plus time for a second ring-around if there were any crucial updates, staff would not plan to leave for home visits until IIRC 9:30am at the earliest.

If anyone who lived alone, or had requested to be treated as such due to Domestic Abuse, was an hour late turning up for work without notice they would be phoned at home to check they were OK.

At the end of the day, if anyone was scheduled to go home straight from their last visit without returning to base, they had to phone their base or the home number of a designated member of staff to report that they had got home safely. If someone had not returned to base an hour after they were due to, then the manager would phone the last premises they were due to visit to check if they were OK and if there was no reply they would be phoned at home.

If there was any doubt that the member of staff was safe then the police would be called and asked to visit the Home Visit address and/or the staff member's home as appropriate.

In the 1990's, if not before, staff working for a local Learning Disability and Mental Health NHS Trust in hospitals and the community received more extensive self defence training and restraint techniques.

None of this guarantees that you won't be physically or sexually harassed, assaulted or murdered by a patient, member of the public or other member of staff, or land upside down in a ditch due to your car spinning off an icy road in the middle of nowhere. The best that can be done is to minimise risk and for employers to exercise a duty of care to protect you and help you to protect yourself.

It is not just nurses and other NHS staff who are at risk. I would hope that all Vocational Courses would care enough about their students to provide self defence and "protect yourself" classes.

NebulousSadTimes · 10/11/2025 11:32

Thank you for taking the time to post such a detailed answer @POWNewcastleEastWallsend .

The reality is that you cannot stop patients, members of the public and even other staff from trying to attack you

How did we get from taking all the steps that you detailed to this world we are now in where women are actually punished and taken to court by their seniors and employers for not wanting men to watch them getting changed? Who are those employers minimising risk for? Themselves, so they don't have to deal with the narcissistic mantrums of entitled predators. The only responsibility those employers felt was to themselves. With perhaps a grateful little nod to Stonewall and their like.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 10/11/2025 12:05

NebulousSadTimes · 10/11/2025 11:32

Thank you for taking the time to post such a detailed answer @POWNewcastleEastWallsend .

The reality is that you cannot stop patients, members of the public and even other staff from trying to attack you

How did we get from taking all the steps that you detailed to this world we are now in where women are actually punished and taken to court by their seniors and employers for not wanting men to watch them getting changed? Who are those employers minimising risk for? Themselves, so they don't have to deal with the narcissistic mantrums of entitled predators. The only responsibility those employers felt was to themselves. With perhaps a grateful little nod to Stonewall and their like.

Thank you. I was a bit afraid that the wall of text might be off-putting ❤️

The shift from protecting female staff to deliberately exposing them to humiliation, degradation and danger is absolutely horrifying.

I posted on another thread:

"the Trust's enforcement of bodily exposure and voyeurism on the Nurses communicated its lack of respect for the Darlington Nurses, for women in general and for the principle of "informed consent".

What a great way to inculcate Rape Culture into an organisation responsible for the care and safety of women when they are at their most vulnerable!"

NebulousSadTimes · 10/11/2025 12:13

What a great way to inculcate Rape Culture into an organisation responsible for the care and safety of women when they are at their most vulnerable!

So true. Why. We ALL need to wonder why.

It has to be a lot more than lack of respect.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/11/2025 12:14

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 10/11/2025 12:05

Thank you. I was a bit afraid that the wall of text might be off-putting ❤️

The shift from protecting female staff to deliberately exposing them to humiliation, degradation and danger is absolutely horrifying.

I posted on another thread:

"the Trust's enforcement of bodily exposure and voyeurism on the Nurses communicated its lack of respect for the Darlington Nurses, for women in general and for the principle of "informed consent".

What a great way to inculcate Rape Culture into an organisation responsible for the care and safety of women when they are at their most vulnerable!"

Women need to be saying this out loud - repeatedly. It is rape culture to compel women to undress in front of male colleagues.
The NHS are openly trying to decriminalise voyeurism and indecent exposure - and nobody is calling them out about it.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 10/11/2025 13:30

It really should be in the job description for women. (Oddly there will be no issues in working out who they are and that they are women, because they are the ones the men - also oddly identifiable- wish to take their clothes off with, and the ones who if they are non compliant will end up being put through all possible punishment and stress)

You will, as a condition of your employment, be required to undress with and for the gratification of any male staff claiming a belief that they are women.

FAQ:
What if I do not share this belief and perceive him as a man?

a: You are required to pretend at all times to believe that he is indeed a woman and to undress accordingly, and to see your presence firstly as to enable him and meet his needs, and only second to meet your own practical needs such as changing. Attempting to find a middle ground by hanging around outside until he leaves and then going inside to undress may lead to him taking contempraneous notes against you and seeking any opportunity to take revenge. We will of course fully support him in this.

Isn't this voyeurism and compelled bodily exposure?

a: we will be pretending at all times a belief that he is a woman, and refusing any alternative view points on this, so no.

What about my privacy and equality of consideration/needs to be met?

a: these are at all times subordinated to this pretence, and should not be mentioned or requested. Doing so will be seen as an act of malicious rebellion and dealt with accordingly.

what about my right to hold the belief that he is a man and nothing changes that, and to act accordingly?

a: You may theoretically have the right to hold this vile and evil belief, but any actions or words that in any way approach expressing it will lay you open to all the hell we can throw at you.

We shall now hold hands together and chant Hail Stonewall Full of Grace, followed by a chorus of Get Your Tits Out for the Lads.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 10/11/2025 13:31

Its weird isn't it? No one knows what the hell we are or how we know what we are, but everyone's absolutely bloody sure who gets to say 'take your clothes off for me' and who is not allowed to say 'no'.