XL Bully again

[Ihatetomatoes]

Another poor child, a 9 month old baby, killed by an XL bully.

Should they be muzzled indoors around children and babies?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/police-reveal-breed-dog-killed-32819908.amp?int_source=taboola&int_medium=display&int_campaign=organic

I think someone throwing that in with a posting history of 1 may have an axe to grind, TBH.

why did you regurgitate an unsubstantiated story?

So what's your view on XL bullies and their record @Factsoverfiction?

That's correct, it's not a fantasy.

And of the 40 fatalities caused by dogs in the UK in the last 5 years, (including the baby tragically killed in Wales), over half (21) were killed by an XLB. That's a far higher figure than fatalities caused by the American Pitbull Terrier, banned in 1991.

Anyone who believes the XL Bully isn't an inherently dangerous breed is delusional.

What’s an xl bully?

Thank you for this link @Icecreamandcoffee .

I think a pertinent thing around the UK operating a small gene pool can be seem to play out in the article here: “

”Another UK breeder called Master XL Bully Kennels makes pedigree tracing much easier for us. He lists it for us. Here’s the descendants of Axel on their website. Notice how often Kimbo and his offspring appears. We traced the pedigree anyway and its an example of how UK breeders are purposefully trying to breed monsters. Kimbo is already inbred. Breeders are taking him and inbreeding even further.
Axel’s pedigree stands as a distressing example of irresponsible breeding with seemingly no consideration for the health and temperament of the dogs produced. Brace yourself: Axel’s grandmothers, Havana and Red Snow, are full sisters, their father King Kronos doubles as Axel’s great-grandfather. His grandfathers Frank Sinatra and Kronos are full brothers. Further entwining this lineage, Axel’s remaining grandfather also descends from UKC’s Most Wanted Kimbo, due to a father-to-daughter mating. So, every grandparent of Axel traces back to Kimbo.”

These animals are dangerous because they have been domesticated over hundreds of years. We have made them loveable, doe-eyed and eager to please. Then we took this breed and turned it into a scarily inhumane in bred psychopath with a nuclear button within four or five generations. (All while still displaying the wanting to be a good boy behaviours).

I wonder if legislators feel current regulation is enough (and not too tricky politically) to severely reduce the breed numbers over the next decade while excepting some deaths will still happen?

The killer kimbo story is unsubstantiated. Bullywatch have failed to produce evidence time and again when questioned. If you’re reading it elsewhere it’s a rehash of the original (unsubstantiated) bullywatch claim.

Your post at 17:26. I think you know.

I second that!

You think I know what? That bullywatch have fabricated something?
That you lot have no idea what an xl is.
A set of characteristics and measurements?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/official-definition-of-an-xl-bully-dog/xl-bully-conformation-standard

I'll ask again, what do you think of the record of dogs who are identified as XL bullies after they've killed someone?

Not by people on here, by vets.

I think it's perfectly obvious the poster meant overpower. I don't think she's going around punching dogs.

@factsoverfiction has been watching YouTube versus documented evidence including from Kimbo's owner and deaths attributed to its offspring. There's always one who thinks these dogs aren't dangerous and haven't killed babies and children 🙄

They’re a type. Like a pitbull in UK law, and other dogs in different legislatures across Europe.

You’re welcome.

A friend of mine when age 9 had to have 16 stitches after being mauled by a boxer that had escaped their front garden. I don’t hear of spaniels mauling kids like that. Bull breeds have extremely powerful jaws. Why else would you want one unless you wants to maim people?

That’s my point - a licence that actually means something. A licence that says your home is checked, you have got the dog from a legitimate source, your dog is chipped, insured, registered with a vet and you have attended compulsory dog training.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/girl-3-undergoes-surgery-after-shocking-dog-attack-outsi-326038/

Actually, there's a (now thankfully rare) condition commonly known as Spaniel Rage or Cocker Rage. I was a Behaviourist and Dog Trainer during the 90s and 2000s and had various referrals for it: one Border Collie, one Great Dane and at least half a dozen Cocker Spaniels.

https://cbtdogbehaviour.com/sudden-onset-aggression-rage-syndrome/

With regard to Boxers, I met a lot of Boxers during my career. I also had friends who kept them. I would describe them as high energy and in the nicest possible way "daft." I wouldn't describe the breed as inherently dangerous. But there are exceptions to every rule in any dog breed. I saw aggression in all kinds of dog breeds usually caused by a lack of early socialisation, inappropriate handling including using violence to discipline the dog, inadequate exercise, inadequate mental stimulation and so on. If a dog escapes from its garden and its first thought is to bite a child, then there's an awful lot that's gone wrong with the upbringing of that dog. With the obvious exception of banned breeds, most individual breeds are sound with a few rogue individuals (usually through no fault of their own.)

Ah yes I agree with this for dogs in general, but not for XL bullies - they need to be put down so the breed is eradicated entirely.

Compulsory dog training and a nice house wont do jack if one of these monsters gets rage syndrome as described above, and the fact that most are descended from a dog that was completely inbred indicates it's an issue with their brains. Training cannot override a malformed, damaged brain.

Sadly, we're in a position in this country now where we're trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. This happened in the 80s and 90s with the American Pit Bull Terrier.
I'm firmly of the opinion now that DEFRA (or whoever is responsible) should be given the remit of determining which breeds of dogs we allow to be imported into the UK and which breeds we don't. There also need to be much tighter controls in place, with conformation checks being carried out at borders. For example, The APT was banned in 1991 yet an APT was responsible for killing someone in the last 5 years, an illegal import. It would cost money but probably no more than the millions its already costing for police and emergency response, helicopters and so on to deal with the ongoing XLB nightmare.

It wouldn't even be a difficult exercise. Defra would simply need to get hold of the fatality stats in countries where the breed is popular; and if it's a banned breed in some countries, investigate as to why it's a banned breed and act accordingly. For example, even a cursory look at the appalling fatality stats in the USA caused by the American Pit Bull Terrier and latterly the XLB would suggest in large type and flashing lights that neither breed was a suitable import and should be banned. It was done to some extent with a few breeds in 1991 for the DDA but it needs to be ongoing and it needs to be tough.

I agree @AcquadiP but it's an impossible task. There should have been restrictions imposed on importing fighting dogs like the Perro de Presa Canario and Cane Corso - there was little point in banning Tosa and Fila but allowing these other similar breeds in.

Some of the guarding breeds like Caucasian and Central Asian should also face restrictions. They are not dogs that belong on the average UK housing estate, they need knowledgeable and experienced homes.

They also need to stop the importation of the Eastern European rescue dogs flooding in. Some of these are dangerous due to being a mix of street dogs, hounds and livestock guarding dogs (and I speak as a person with a background in Livestock Guarding breeds). People are taking in these rescue dogs and adopting them into a family home without knowing or understanding they have a strong guarding instinct that can become a liability. So in my opinion, a lot of these rescues are also an accident waiting to happen.

The Dangerous Dogs act was knee jerk legislation that was not well thought out and we will be paying for this for the foreseeable future.

Humans are so arrogant they think they can socialise instinct out of animals. You can't and you can not truely understand it either.

I would agree that you can't socialise instinct out.
You can learn to understand it, but only from years of experience and studying dog behaviour.

Which the vast majority of dog owners don't understand or have the patient or inclination to try and understand or put in place actions that reduce the risk of the instinct becoming dangerous. I'm surrounded by animals and have been all my life and spend hours with them, but they are not humans and they have different instincts and triggers for their behaviour. All is good if them and I recognise this.

Meh

My opinion on dangerous dogs is that it's entirely dependent on their owner and how they are trained/raised.

My best friend adopted an XL bully, she had just given birth to a litter of puppies despite being very young herself (and this was believed to be her second litter) and thankfully they all got adopted into loving homes. (Jat before the ban came in)

I have absolutely zero fear being around that dog. Because I know my friend and I know my friend takes it very seriously. She has made sure she's been trained, she is always nuzzled in public, she is registered and well cared for. And honestly she is soft as a fucking brush. I have no qualms fucking cuddling her because she has never and I doubt would ever show any signs of aggression because she hasn't been brought up to. The issue with many, especially those owned by idiots who like to act tough is they are treated like shit with no training and encouraged to be violent.

I feel safer around an XL bully than I do many men... 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️