XL Bully again

[Ihatetomatoes]

Another poor child, a 9 month old baby, killed by an XL bully.

Should they be muzzled indoors around children and babies?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/police-reveal-breed-dog-killed-32819908.amp?int_source=taboola&int_medium=display&int_campaign=organic

IIRC, part of the issue is that XL Bullys in the UK have a very shallow gene pool, and are massively inbred. Apparently over half are descended from a US dog, 'Killer Kimbo' (who himself was the result of mating a brother and sister).

Kimbo's descendants are responsible for multiple fatalities in the US, to the point that most American US XL Bully breeders avoid using any of his bloodline. In quite a few of the cases, the dogs involved in serious injuries and fatalities seemed to be placid, loving family dogs that just suddenly snapped one day.

In the UK, the XL Bully gene pool is a lot smaller, where breeders (back when it was legal) were breeding from dogs where Kimbo was the singular great-grandparent, and both grandmothers were sisters.

I absolutely love dogs, but XL Bullys, particularly in the UK, are (through no fault of their own) inbred genetic time bombs that are liable to explode. I hate to say it, as I'm sure that there's ones that would live blameless lives, but I think a humane cull would have been safer.

And honestly, I wouldn't be against dog licences, with mandatory training. It'd protect the dogs as much as (if not more than) people.

Every single one should be destroyed. No exceptions.

They are literally wolves in wolf clothing and STILL people don’t learn.

We need a dog licence that actually means something. Nobody should be buying from backyard breeders. Nobody should be keeping a massive dog in a tiny flat. The licence needs to be expensive so it can fund wardens. Registered breeders and rescues only.
We also need more public areas set aside for off lead dogs so that those of us without dogs can enjoy our countryside in peace. Dogs are everywhere now.

I would 💯 rather take my chances with a wolf.

Looks like they were also charged with child neglect - does this mean the child lived there rather than being a visitor?

A dog licence would do nothing, this dog was licensed, with an exemption certificate. XL bullies are not safe full stop, a license would do nothing to change this.

But a licence would not have prevented this death! The dog was already registered and had an exemption cert.

Licences are utterly meaningless if all they are is a bit of paper you pay £20 for.

I think it is time there was a proper grown up discussion about dog behavior and huge dog behavior awareness campaign.

There are far too many owners who (unknowingly) are poor owners. There needs to be behaviourists and trainers really reinforcing the message that certain (very commonly observed) behavior is not good dog behavior.

Examples of poor dog behavior and poor owner knowledge of poor behavior includes: a dog approaching other dogs and humans uninvited (with owner simping "they are friendly/social"), a dog barking at another dog or human (who is passing them and non threatening), a dog jumping up at another dog or human (usually in greeting), putting paws on furniture, pulling at the lead, begging for food at the table.

There needs to be a requirement that dogs undergo proper training classes with a reputable dog trainer/ behaviourist and that poor socialisation behaviours are addressed.

On the XL bully front, it really does need putting about that most dogs that fit this category come from a very narrow bloodline of Killer Kimbo. A huge percentage have this family of dogs in their bloodline. The US have banned use of this bloodline but it's all over England and Europe.
https://banthebullyxluk.wordpress.com/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/

Throughout all of time, there have been people who have kept dogs badly and/or cruelly - throughout the UK, there are many other breeds kept like this too. Those other breeds are not killing people regularly though, are they, including grown men?

It is just beyond belief that anyone still thinks these are 'just a dog'. They are way beyond that. Thankfully I see very few of them round here, but when I do I just have a complete gut reaction to them to avoid. I have owned and loved dogs all my life and have lived with multiples of giant breeds.

One I do meet occasionally, and I was talking to the owner the other day and explained that sorry, I appreciate that ostensibly the dog is as good natured as you could wish - but I still have a total wish to avoid him. As I was walking away and pondering further, I think it must be that my brain recognises that he probably won't attack my dogs or me, but if he did there is probably not a damn thing anyone can do to stop him until my dogs are probably dead and people are injured.

I think the trouble is that their owners are convinced they have control, either through hard work and training, or through sheer idiocy and superiority complex. They are kidding themselves. It's not just the dog's weight, it's the body composition and muscle mass, and the low centre of gravity/stability.

That is true, but is not applicable to the XL Bully situation. Poorly trained cockerpoos with poor recall and separation anxiety has nothing to do with the existence of XL Bullies.

It dilutes the extremely serious situation with this specific breed to make it a conversation about dog breeds, training and poor ownership generally. That discussion is warranted, but is a much less serious one.

Because this legislation is ill thought out. There are other countries that have licensing for certain breeds, but with mandatory training. Although I think we’re talking about licensing for dogs other than XLs, which I think most pp have accepted are an exception.

No, the breed needs euthanizing en masse until they're all extinct. The ban on breeding/new licensing laws are obviously not working, considering the last few deaths have been children inside homes. Saying this as a GSD owner.

The discussion had already been extended to include variously muscle dogs, bullies, staffies, and all dogs bigger than a Labrador

It would be much simpler to just ban all dogs. Keep a few in zoos and animal parks for people to look at. Far fewer innocent people would be killed by dogs if this was done.

The change in law hasn’t made the safety of these dogs any better. If anything, they’re cooped up at home, probably with children. Insanity to have a dog like this around a baby.

I think all xl bullies in this country should be banned, regardless.

Are you an XL Bully owner? I'm not sure why so many posters are wanting to make this about dogs generally and deflect from this really important issue.

There should be MUCH stricter controls and monitoring, and licensing should cover the costs, for all dogs, because there were 31,920 dog attacks in just England and Wales last year. Thats a ton of them.

Two arrests after baby killed in XL bully dog attack https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cew4zwdw5gwo

OR, we could just let people have lions and tigers from the zoos in their homes - because humans should be able to own whatever animals they want surely, no matter how dangerous or aggressive?

After all, I know a lion in a zoo who wouldnt hurt a fly- he's a big softy called "fluffy". I would trust him around any 2 year old child.

I know you're being flippant, but 'simple' is the opposite of what that plan would be. Unless you mean simple in the sense of stupid.

They were always at home with children. At least I’ve seen some muzzled when out.

But it’s not far enough, they should just not exist.

Well said

We had a rescue Staffy who fitted the affectionate lump description perfectly, despite a chequered history of abandonment and starvation bad enough to make the local press. He honestly thought he was a lap dog and would have been blissfully happy if he'd been small enough to be carried around.

I would not go near or ever trust an XL (or anyone who thought owning one was a good idea) and while I feel sorry for the dogs that are a result of this appalling breeding, they shouldn't exist and the sooner they don't the better.

Do XL Bullies concern you?

"Thinking of the family of the baby."

They bear the responsibility for the death of the baby.
I hope the police in the photo were about to arrest them.