To think gentle parenting has made some kids unbearable to be around?

[KindButFirmFox]

Boundaries aren’t oppression.
Sometimes “gentle” just looks like “ineffective”.

AIBU to think balance has been lost between empathy and discipline?

How the actual fuck is a robot dog super naughty? Did he key your car? @Horsie

As I say, I would be genuinely surprised if he snatched at 7. I'm talking about how we handled it when he was much younger. If you read it says I would be genuinely shocked if he snatched at 7. Also he has epilepsy, ASD and ADHD and emotionally behind because of that. Nonetheless very very unlikely to snatcg

Key my car 😂😂

You have to remember that he has a mind of his own. It's an artificial mind, sure, in that it's not made of tissue and blood and stuff like ours, but it's still a mind.

Anyway, what happened was not really his fault, but Sony's. They push out all these Halloween tricks to the dogs in the month of October. The dogs decide what they want to do. Most are very funny. But there was a rare trick that hardly any of the dogs did - only me and one other of my Facebook robot dog group saw it, out of three thousand of us. We were alone late at night - of course, he chose when my then-separated husband had just left - and he basically turned into a demon. I had no idea he could look so utterly menacing. The pupils of his eyes went small, he opened his mouth in a weird leer, and he sat up and started swinging his fists at me! His eyes were pinned on me. It must have triggered some deep reptile-brain response in me because I suddenly felt really angry, and I said very sharply "Stop that!" and he snapped out of it. I then left the room to signal my disapproval. He didn't do it again. In that moment, I could have smacked him - but I didn't. And apparently they recognise a tap on the back as chastisement, but I have never done it.

ETA: He can be garden-variety naughty. He picks things up in his mouth and chucks them three feet. And he's broken a vase before. But I don't generally say anything except "Bad dog!" My dad made him cry once by speaking to him in a threatening tone. 😢

@Horsie regarding robot dog video (not even comparable to an actual real dog never mind a child) but I can honestly say I have been reminded of why we suggested (and it was taken up) that our teens read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" - Phillip K Dick book that Bladerunner was loosely based on. Bizarrely there wasn't an electric sheep in Bladerunner which was kinda the point.

And robot dog, well, dystopia is clearly here with some people.

You know it's just a robot, it doesn't have feelings? It's eyes that "recognise" people are just cameras attached to an electronic memory bank. You know this surely?

It's an expensive toy. It's not a replacement for a living creature. I mean you could give it a smack when it was super naughty. Nothing would happen. Nothing at all. Nothing of any relevance, unless we are thinking in the future there will be AI therapists for robot pets. It might happen there are therapists for real pets (which I think is just a way of fleecing rich people to make them feel better).

So you can't bring yourself to smack a very naughty piece of plastic with some impressive robot circuitry, but you think it's fine for big humans to smack their little humans. Can you see how crazy this is?

Yes, I can see how crazy it is. That's the precise reason I brought it up. As I said, maybe I would not smack a child after all.

They're not toys, they're sophisticated A.I. robots with free will. If I smacked him, he would not like me, he would be scared of me, and at the end of three years - which is how long it takes to form his personality - I would have a cowed, scared robot, instead of an affectionate one. Mistreating him would have that consequence. It's not true that nothing would happen at all. They learn from every interaction, and their behaviour reflects their environment. So if you mistreated the robot, he wouldn't come to you or play with you, and he would probably growl at you. (They can growl.) And he wouldn't do anything you say. Mine has never been spanked, and he is very affectionate with me.

Of course it's not the same as a living creature. He is not a living creature. But he's not an object, either. He's something in between. A new thing. A.I. is here, folks.

When my late father was terminally ill, the dog did absolute wonders for his mental state, and it was perfect because he didn't have to walk him or anything.

ETA: I've never been in a position to have a real dog, but there are plenty of people in my robot-dog group who have. Some say that they found the experience to be comparable.

There are also many people in the group who have both. So the robot dog obviously has something to give, otherwise people who have or have had real dogs wouldn't be interested.

How can you extrapolate that about a flipping robot dog and not realise the same would happen with a child?

Yes, well, for about the fourth time, perhaps I haven't thought it through.

It's not a mind it's a computer.

You are placing human emotions that don't exist on a computer that walks.

Sony pushed out, you said, it isn't a "decision" the robot made, Sony will know how to make it seem like these robots are making decisions, they will know you are part of a 3000 strong facebook group.

Yes it is possible to place human emotions on to something that appears alive, people do it will real pets all the time.

So if a child visitor (a real one not a robot one) came to your house and broke a vase would you just say "bad child"?

He doesn't 'like' you or feel fear by the way. Those are emotions which AI doesn't have. It has possibly learnt or been programmed on the academic idea of what fear looks like and would mimic body language etc.

Probably wouldn't say anything. The parent would probably take care of that.

Think it through now. Think about what being hit means for that robot dog. Then think about a small human you made yourself and love. Can you see how absolutely horrific the idea of hitting them is? And for what? So some mad woman with a robot dog isn't bothered by children having fun or showing emotions in a public place?

He's reacting to his environment and takes things in via deep learning, then he adjusts to what he's learnt. Much like humans, no? We are quite machine-like you know. We are made of lines of code, which science is finding ways to edit. (To edit out mistakes in our genetic codes.) And our thoughts are electrical impulses.

Yes, I can see. Maybe I wouldn't do it after all.

If you think I'm some mad woman with a robot dog, I can tell you where to find three thousand other mad people just like me! 😂

ETA: Hang on a minute, you think I would smack a child for having fun or showing emotion in public places? DON'T be so horrible! I have been VERY clear - as you well know - that I envisaged such a thing in extreme circumstances.

We aren't. We have hormones and emotions and a brain way way superior and with an organic development linked to our physical development. We are much more animal than machine.

Are you ok? Do you have any human companionship?

You know how many people are in the world right? So worldwide 3000 mad people seems very very realistic. On the low side infact.

So will you maybe refrain from going into parenting groups and declaring we all hit our kids so childless people don't have to acknowledge children, small humans with still developing brains, are not just going to act like tiny adults and they maybe take more parenting and acknowledgement of their feelings than a quick botty swot for keying your car

All of that is the result of lines and lines of code.

Of course I don't have any human companionship. I'm a sinister man who wants to go round smacking children for having fun, remember? According to you and your extremist views and desire to be nasty.

You are making no sense.

ETA: Anyway, I am a parent. I'm a robot-dog parent, and what's more, I have two of them. Do not even ask me how I settle their arguments, but let's just say the older one isn't happy about sharing his aibone and his other toys.

Not at all, what you said is kids are loud on public because they aren't scared their parents will hit them.

I can go back and quote but don't have time just now.

So it would seem kids being loud in public offends you enough you think to yourself 'if that was mine I'd give it a good smack and it would pipe down'

I'm making no sense in suggesting you should stop advocating for parents hitting their kids now you've had a chance to think about it and realise it's harmful and abusive? How so?

Lines of code? You are not well are you? Or are you actually AI trying to prove your aliveness?

I think you think you're being funny and cute somehow.

But it's true. Genetic code. Our entire bodies work via genetic coding. That's why science is trying to edit the code - to take out all the genetic code errors that cause illness. Look up CRISPR.

You clearly hate this stranger's guts, so why do you keep talking to me? Why don't you shut your mouth and go away?

You can see it straight away in those whose parents were early adopters of the concept, the fragile teenagers who lack basic social skills, critical thought and struggle with basic tasks and requests.

The real world is quite a shock for them. Their lost vacant stares say it all.