Hen party drama

[Horsingabout2]

My two best friends are in charge of my hen weekend. I’ve given them free rein within a couple of paramaters (including not to exceed a certain cost so as many people as possible can make it given it’s quite close to Christmas).

I am not in the WA group but I know they were putting the itinerary in there earlier. One of my friends has called me to say one of the attendees (my cousin) has kicked up a fuss about one of the meals being a butlers in the buff style evening. Said they won’t go on the weekend if that’s the plan. No one else has said they’ve an issue.

My cousin hasn’t contacted me directly. I don’t want my friends to have to rearrange things given the efforts they’ve gone to in order to arrange. AIBU to say that if she wants to be stubborn and not attend, that says more about her and how highly she must regard me?

I think it is absolutely valid to not be comfortable about either and I wouldn't hold that against anyone. However I stand by my original statement that it really isn't on the same level as a female stripper

"And no, it's not equivalent to a man paying a woman to show him her vagina or anus or give him a lap dance."

Of course it is not the same, it is even worse. Because by attending these sleazy shows these bunch of demented shallow ladettes are actively funding and normalising the exploitation of women and helping to sustain an industry where abuse and degradation are routine. And when someone like OP’s cousin objects to this abhorrent spectacle, these braindead dimwits descend on her like vultures ready to tear her apart for daring to question their pathetic form of entertainment.

And yet, OP has the gall to go me-me-me. "I am the important one here. Screw your ethics. Screw you values. This is my party and you should follow suit or else fuck off".

OP, you still have time to fix this. Your cousin may be the only one who has vocalised her disagreement but chances are there will be more attendees questioning this abysmal choice for a hen party.

Of course it is not the same, it is even worse.

Every now and then you see a comment so utterly ridiculous, with such a ridiculous amount of stretch, so completely risible, that you just switch right off. It is worse than useless attempting a conversation with someone who says, with a straight face, that a guy in an apron pouring drinks for giggling hens is WORSE than a public club where men pay women to stretch their orifices in their faces. I mean, this person even says that by attending a BITB, the women are responsible for exploitation of women (watch the "no I never, you just don't understand" backpedalling begin now, faster than a stripper sliding down a pole). What are you supposed to do with such absurdity?

I just can't any more. There's alternative points of view and then there's total absurdity that just isn't worth anyone's time.

Do you really not understand that it just isn't everyone's cup of tea? And why is the knee jerk reaction always to accuse people of being nuns, knitters, pearl clutchers, prudes etc etc?

It has nothing to do with pearl clutching or being prudish for me. I just wouldn't find it funny or entertaining. I appreciate eye candy, but prefer a well dressed man to a naked one.

I think it says something that the majority of posters don't find it entertaining either.

Seriously.....why do we think it's a smashing idea to look at naked male OR female bodies on a hen/stag do? I'm not prudish or frigid but I honestly think it's a bit disgusting.

Are we saying it's the last time we get to see another adults naked body, therefore we have to cop an eyeful or a handful (maybe).... quicksticks ...
.before the wedding day?

The whole idea is ludicrous imo.

Tysm 😘

of course I understand. I also don’t care.
she should because it’s her cousins hen party and we should do things for others from time to time. Not rocket science darling.

No. - some things are too big an ask. I wouldn’t participate in tacky porn for anyone. I’d feel that if they were good friends (well actually, I wouldn’t BE be friends with anyone who was OK with that) they would understand and not push me into such a situation.

’Do things for others’🙄

I’m finding this thread a total time warp. Are there really people who still think this stuff is OK?

'Doing things for others' also means being willing to accept other people's discomfort and personal boundaries.

We should be prepared sometimes to do things for other people that we find boring, or that requires a certain amount of effort..

We should not be required to do things that cause distress or serious personal discomfort for the sake of another person's having fun at a party.

It's always possible that the cousin has experienced unpleasant encounters that have made such events uncomfortable for her. Many people have been subjected to indecent exposure, for example. But even without such experiences, I don't think one is entitled to force such activities on people, just for the sake of a hen party.

What a patronising, twatty comment. You must have boundaries in the basement if you think you should do something you don’t want to do purely because you happen to be related to someone by accident of birth. Maybe work on your issues?

Don't turn this into a quarrel with your cousin. Not wanting to attend this is not a reflection of her feelings for you. Respect how she feels and keep a good, family relationship.

I’m in no way conservative. I’ve modelled nude, watched my ex act sex out on screen with gorgeous women.

That still doesn’t mean I’m comfortable being around naked men like that. I also don’t want my man around naked women in an environment like that.

That’s not a judgement, that’s a boundary.

I completely agree with everything you say in your post but I must clarify that I haven't ever stretched any orifice of mine in anyone's face.

Ouch.😆 😉

Nobody 'should' do something they're uncomfortable with and which is far from essential. That's also not rocket science, darling.

It’s encouraging that the dinosaurs who can’t see what’s wrong with the BITB thing are in a tiny minority.

But I physically cringe when pps trot out rubbish like “Come on - we girls love a bit of Prosecco” and “we’re all dying for a squeeze” (what the hell does THAT mean?). Or the clearly Prosecco-ed-up pp who compared objectors to nuns - I think she’s underestimating nuns there.

I’m a bit of a snob and I have a mental picture of these pps…and it’s not flattering.

No it’s not par for the course - many hen dos are quite civilised with no naked men in sight.

No we don’t all secretly like a bit of eye candy after a few Proseccos.

If anything, I think it’s probably better to ogle/objectify people who have chosen to make their living out of that, and to pay them for it, than to ogle and objectify people who haven’t consented to it.

But a lot of people who work at it, do so because of their LACK OF CHOICE.

People often do stripping /prostitution because they are struggling for money and are in a bad place.

So if only poor people are strippers, there is a moral question about whether they actually have freedom of choice

But, even if you concede that (and yes, concede that the ‘choice’ will often be not a free one), surely it’s perfectly possible to go through life not sexually objectifying anyone?

I mean, in my 53 years of an often fairly varied and rackety life in quite a few different countries, I’ve not found it much of a strain to walk past a building site and not shout ‘Phwoar! I’d go through you like butter!’ or scream ‘Look at the arse on that!’ at passing male strangers when out with friends.

It reminds me of that scene in Gavin and Stacey.

I think this type of thing just lowers people really, it's rather animalistic. Women 'ogling' men doesn't equate to equality either.

It’s like the old question from when feminism was in its infancy : do liberated women HAVE to behave as badly as men traditionally did in the past?

No, they don’t. There is nothing good and plenty that’s exploitative and gross about ogling a stranger’s naked body -especially when he’s being paid to supposedly titillate you.

’Ogling’ and ‘objectifying’ just means looking at someone for the sole reason that you find them physically attractive. It doesn’t mean catcalling or harassment, at all.

It is completely normal and natural for human beings to enjoy looking at other human beings simply because they’re sexually attractive.

I wouldn’t actively choose to attend a ‘butlers in the buff’ event because I’d find it a bit naff. However, I absolutely do follow thirst trap accounts for hot men on social media, and I like looking at attractive men. Of course I’m not going to shout things at random men in the street, much as the vast majority of men don’t do that to random women. But I don’t think it’s remotely problematic to enjoy looking at attractive members of whichever sex you find attractive.

Years ago when I worked in TV I spent a day on set of a drama series when they happens to be filming scenes of a group of young men in a sports team talking in the changing room, all shirtless and glistening with fake sweat. Obviously I wasn’t harassing them in any way whatsoever but my god, I enjoyed looking at them and I don’t think there’s anything weird or shameful about that. I’m pretty sure my male colleagues got similar enjoyment when they had to attend set on a day when the lead women actors had scenes at a pool in a health spa. And that is also equally fjne.

We obviously move in very different circles. I cannot think of any man or woman in my broad friendship circle who has gone to a strip club or male strip show.

vulgar and naff, before you even get to the issue of exploitation.

are you serious? a gang of women can be just as bad, if not worse, than men. If you had a son would you want him doing this as a job?

Yeah I wouldn’t go to that event either. And I wouldn’t take kindly to being criticised over it.

And as for your “par for the course” comments, no, neither the male or female events in question are “par for the course” on hen/stag dos. A spa weekend or golfing weekend doesn’t involve anything in “the buff” but are still enjoyable.