Hen party drama

[Horsingabout2]

My two best friends are in charge of my hen weekend. I’ve given them free rein within a couple of paramaters (including not to exceed a certain cost so as many people as possible can make it given it’s quite close to Christmas).

I am not in the WA group but I know they were putting the itinerary in there earlier. One of my friends has called me to say one of the attendees (my cousin) has kicked up a fuss about one of the meals being a butlers in the buff style evening. Said they won’t go on the weekend if that’s the plan. No one else has said they’ve an issue.

My cousin hasn’t contacted me directly. I don’t want my friends to have to rearrange things given the efforts they’ve gone to in order to arrange. AIBU to say that if she wants to be stubborn and not attend, that says more about her and how highly she must regard me?

Well you're free to hate both, but it's a crazy false equivalence.

I didn't contradict myself at all.

The market demand is there for male strip clubs.

However society has its current double standards of " men can do whatever thwy want sexually, women can't".

I think that business owners would be afraid to open a male strip club for women in a town, as they might be expecting backlash against it. People in the town would maybe protest.
There is a lot of shaming of anything to do with women showing sexual desires publicly.

Totally agree with you here.

I'm against the objectification of women and I find it hypocritical to then objectify men.

I understand that butlers in the buff isn't as bad as strip clubs in terms of exploitation etc. But it's a spectrum of seediness and I wouldn't want to support any of it. I think women saying it's ok to enjoy butlers in the buff because it's funny and not really sexual etc are kidding themselves really, either they're ok with objectifying other people or they're not.

So chavvy. And your fiance is having a dance you say? Urgh

What I actually hate here is that your cousin has raised it and that’s fine good for her. The interpretation is shes now causing trouble/why should we change things/ she doesn’t think highly enough of me etc. It’s horrible on your part to state this. Also saying no-one else objects - you dont know that. Why can’t you simply reach out to your cousin, like an adult and say you heard xyz, you had no idea this had been booked but completely understand if she doesn’t want to come to that part or whatever. Instead you have joined the ‘gang up’ against her mentality and made it about her relationship with you.

I think ogling and objectifying men (and women) is fine (and very much human nature) in certain situations and contexts.

What about where payment is involved?

Well said. I agree.

No we don’t all secretly like a bit of eye candy 🤦‍♀️
It’s sad how the attitude is always different when it comes to naked men earning a living compared to naked women earning a living.
Naked men = fun
Naked woman = poor women being forced to do that

It wasn't a false equivalence. I've never seen 'waitresses in the buff' advertised or suggested to for a stag do. You acknowledge yourself strip clubs etc are an entirely different thing.

I didn't mention exploitation of either sex. I was referring to the objectification of women and men. To say it's okay to objectify men and not women because the former 'is just a laugh' IS a double standard and If there's no sexual element to a butler in the buff why are they naked then? Why are you ok with objectifying men when you hate the objectification of women?

im not remotely bothered by anyone seeing my original post. Is that menat to be some sort of gotcha? It's not my fault you've implied stuff that I've never said/written.

Butlers in the buff is super cringe and if your fiance was having strippers would you think that was appropriate too?

Grim and exploitative. I wouldn't like it either

I think we need to acknowledge that there is a difference... Not a hard and fast rule but for most women seeing a 'butler in the buff' is very tongue in cheek, a giggle and not particularly sexual. The games and interactions are usually designed to be silly not sexual. The same can't be said for female strippers.

More importantly we have to consider the power shifts involved. A 40 something man getting a lapdance from a 19 year old woman poses significant risks to that woman. It likely involves this young woman absorbing some of that risk and at best being very hyperaware/uncomfortable about it. It's possible (maybe probable..) that there is a degree of exploitation from whoever is employing this woman too. You cannot possibly say the same thing about a 40 year old woman playing a few party games with a 19 year old man in an apron! Yes some might exibit predatory behaviour but the vast majority won't be of any risk at all to this young man even if she wanted to be as let's be honest the power still lies with the man. Most women are probably just giggling and privately wishing he'd put some damned clothes on. You can't possibly compare the 2

This. Not once in my entire adult life have I thought after a couple of drinks "you know what would make this better, some random bloke's arse hanging out in front of me whilst I'm chatting to my friends".

🤣🤣🤣

Nor me! 🤮

Can you explain how it was fun? Genuine question - I really cannot imagine.

And no, it doesn’t surprise me that the group was made up of wealthy ex-public school women. I know some such and they’re a loud, shrill and insensitive lot.

Here we are again all the Nuns in disguise Mumsnet mums..oh no id rather chew my arm off..oh no it's grim..oh no id never go to a Butler in the buffet I think more of myself..shut up the lot of you..you'd be first there and having a squeeze.. you're all here trying to make OP feel bad..I'd say you've all done worse with or without a drink give over fgs..so many saintly mums they'd make you sick on here ..

Really no its not par for the course it's your hen doo and that's a disaster waiting to happen. How would your future husband feel about this. Also you are allowed to be a bridezilla.

Ugh.

Ugh🙄

Can YOU explain what the attraction is of a naked man paid to serve your table (probably looking T you with deserved contempt…)?

I ask because a) I cannot imagine what it might be and b) because the vanishingly small minority on here who are living in the 70s keep telling us it’s fun, while failing to say why.

How do you know how the 19 year old man feels?

About as well as we know how the 19 year old female stripper feels if we want to make that argument.... We can only speculate and go on a balance of probabilities but the same goes for any moral or legal code that we live by surely?

Even worse, I was watching "below deck" recently.

Its a documentary about private cruises.

On one of the episodes, a party hired a naked female model to lie on their dining table and they ate sushi off her naked body.

It just seems like such a way to demean people

We can be uncomfortable with any young person, male or female being paid to be naked/half naked.

Or if we are comfortable with butlers in the buff than we need to be comfortable with topless strippers being hired for our partners private stag dos/birthdays etc

@Finto1111 I've read about that as well.
It was in an article by a young woman who had been a "yacht girl". They would hire attractive young women to be hostesses on private yacht parties. You'd serve the men wearing a bikini. If you were prepared to do it topless, you'd earn more, then you'd earn more for "extra favours".
The "serving platter" is a particular degradation, though.