Hen party drama

[Horsingabout2]

My two best friends are in charge of my hen weekend. I’ve given them free rein within a couple of paramaters (including not to exceed a certain cost so as many people as possible can make it given it’s quite close to Christmas).

I am not in the WA group but I know they were putting the itinerary in there earlier. One of my friends has called me to say one of the attendees (my cousin) has kicked up a fuss about one of the meals being a butlers in the buff style evening. Said they won’t go on the weekend if that’s the plan. No one else has said they’ve an issue.

My cousin hasn’t contacted me directly. I don’t want my friends to have to rearrange things given the efforts they’ve gone to in order to arrange. AIBU to say that if she wants to be stubborn and not attend, that says more about her and how highly she must regard me?

If you like that kind of thing then go ahead but I personally find it tacky and not necessary! I’d rather something a bit classier!
Do you think your friends will enjoy it or prefer something nicer? If you’re happy, tell your friends to say to your cousin it’s what you would enjoy but if not, change it!

From what I know of it (friend had one at a do I didn't go to) the Butler stays for most of the evening.

Just because that is your opinion doesn't make it right.

I disagree with you.

The premise IS the same. Butlers in the buff are designed to sexually titilate women. I actually know a man who did it for a short time.

He stopped because women were slapping his arse and asking to see more

"The reason we don't have clubs with male strippers, I think is that female club owners wouldn't go for the idea when they would rather open other clubs."

And why do you think that would be the case?

we all secretly like a bit of eye candy when we’ve had a few Prosecco’s don’t we!

Erm, no. I’m with your cousin. I would decline too.

Because we currently don't have any male strip bars in the UK. And it would be a small risk to open the first one. So they stick to what they know - normal clubs

Ugh, for goodness sake. Are you always so literal? Obviously there is not literally absolutely no demand for attractive men doing sexy things. But if you think it exists on anything like the same scale as it does for women, or that the demands would routinely be as graphic (I know you don't) then you're absolutely deluded.

If female demand really is that high, then we will soon see OnlyFans, strip clubs, restaurants, Internet porn hubs and so on absolutely full of men doing everything you can imagine and more besides while women wank off to it. Nobody is going to miss a business opportunity like that. I'm not hugely worried. This is not butler in the buff!!

@MyPurpleHeart
We need a thread for this!

Completely agree

I think the demand is the same. We are definitely affected by society of course. That is where the inequality comes from.

Just at the moment - we are very affected by society' rules, of course.

Men having lots of sex equals stud.
Women having lots of sex equals slut.

Which leads to men having no empathy paying for sex, porn etc.

Men have no shame put on them whatsoever for having sex with lots of women. Women do get shame put on them for having sex with lots of men.

Also society still sees women as worth less than men. Which feeds into the arena where men think its okay to pay women for sex, pay for onlyfans.

And women DON'T think its okay to pay to watch men to the same extent, pay for sex, pay for porn, or pay to go to strip clubs

Of course society is unequal.

I thinm we should either have male strip clubs aswell, or have no strip clubs at all.

Having only female strip clubs everywhere where men can watch naked women, feeds into an unequal society: that women are just for mens pleasure

I am not sure why I am quoted here.

Yes, some strippers have been victims of trafficking, It's rare (perhaps unfortunately as they're often trafficked for things a lot worse, strippers do not make so much money in comparison) but it happens. I have not disagreed with some women becoming sex workers due to their situations, I said the exact opposite in fact.

I think the demand is the same.

Oh for...

Fine. Women now have plenty of power to set up businesses for this if there's demand for it. An opportunity to generate the kind of money in the porn industry a second time over will not go unnoticed for long. So let's wait and see if in the next few years we get so inundated with porn and sexual services by men for women to rival the current situation. You know we won't.

What you say about sexual double standards is true, but largely irrelevant to the question. It's not the worry of being seen as a slut, or sexual repression, that's preventing women from paying camboys to wank on camera for them and so on.

Yes, this is what I mean. I am close friends with a male stripper/escort. His work isn't without issue (he's been grabbed etc a few times) but it is absolutely nothing at all like female strippers', and much of it is just the giggling, laughing and being admired 'fun' type of night with the group he's entertaining (I do not take my knowledge from just him however).

Female strippers do have this element at times but they aren't paid for this, and their work carries far more risk.

You are contradicting yourself.
On one hand you claim, oh, yes, there is a huge demand and the success of Magic Mike proves that point.
But, alas, there are no male strip clubs because there is a risk associated with it. How so? I thought you said there is a demand so home come it is risky ? It should be an immediate success! Right?

The reality is that the demand for this kind of shows is orders of magnitude larger when it comes to strip clubs catered for men.
And let's hope it stays that way.

Only a truly revolting individual would reduce another person's body to an object as it's the norm in those places. Why would a bride-to-be, or any woman for that matter, want to spend their time in those sleazy meat markets is beyond me.

Not quite sure why you think your cousin is being unreasonable. I wouldn’t like this either (I also don’t like the rest of what is perceived to be par for the course hen party stuff and had to be talked into having one myself which was just a good meal out with friends) and I’d excuse myself from that part with the butlers.

No we don't. If this floats your boat, fair enough, but don't assume everyone is the same.

It's completely irrelevant what Mumsnet thinks of 'butlers in the buff' events, or whether they're akin to men going to a strip club or not, or whether strip clubs are acceptable and whose DH would or wouldn't go to one.

The fact is that nobody else who is invited to the hen do has a problem with it, and therefore if one person doesn't want to go it shouldn't be rearranged. The person who objects doesn't have to go if she doesn't want to. The fact that she's your cousin is neither here nor there. It's not unreasonable of her not to want to go, but it's also not unreasonable to keep the plans as they are rather than rearrange them to suit her.

This feels like an awful lot of fuss about one person not being keen on one aspect of one hen weekend. A simple 'Sorry you feel that way - we'll miss you of course, but obviously we wouldn't expect you to come if you're not comfortable with it' will suffice.

No.

I'm not backpedaling, I've no need too, I know what I think and meant thanks.

Well said. She could go to the weekend and sit this bit out. I also think it would be unfair to expect her to contribute financially to this part though.

Forgot to quote

So you think oogling and objectifying men is ok because it's 'just a giggle' then?

They're laughing and squealing more than "oogling" and objectifying. It's a novelty comedy act, not a sexually provocative one. They wear frilly half aprons, for goodness sake, it's not serious. And no, it's not equivalent to a man paying a woman to show him her vagina or anus or give him a lap dance.

I do find it hard to see how people can be claiming BITB is exactly like a strip club because there is some degree of nudity involved. Never mind that you'll see more than just bums at a strip club...do these people really not understand context? Nobody complains about nudity in classical art, even though that very often was intended to be seductive. I'm not saying BITB is like Renaissance paintings, I'm just saying that context does matter. Even full nudity, which doesn't happen at BITB, has context. As art, with no pornographic context (attractiveness does not have to mean pornographic), it's still very different to a woman performing nude and being extremely graphic with a view to making men pay to come or get whatever it is they want. And that scenario is also different to a man in a frilly apron showing his bum and pouring some drinks so women can squeal.

You are completely back pedalling, by saying one thing and then claiming you didn't say it. Whatever, the posts are there and everyone can see it. It's not our first day on the Internet.

If you're worried about exploitation, there are about 5000000000000 places to start before BITB. False equivalence isn't an argument and denying that you made a false equivalence isn't an argument either.

I do understand where you're coming from in saying they're not exactly the same situation, but I disagree that it's ok to say one is fine and the other is not. Both are unacceptable in my view.