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Not an ordinary working person if you earn over 45k

1000 replies

TesChique · 02/11/2025 15:50

Disincentivising anyone to strive to earn over 45k a year is a bizarre strategy for growth i feel

Aibu?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
SquashedSquashess · 03/11/2025 09:05

The resentment towards anyone doing well in this country is astounding.

Imagine if the narrative was “we’re lucky to have a cohort of high earners who strive to achieve more, thanks to their earnings our welfare state can provide for those in need”

Perhaps that would reduce some of the resentment high earner have towards ever increasing taxation. Instead, it is always coupled with “pay your fair share”, “the broadest shoulders” etc

When I am paying almost half of my salary in tax, I think I am already paying my fair share.

Lower - mid earners in this country have a lower tax burden than in European countries. And yet it is always higher earners being shafted.

Put another way - why should I attend work for 5 months a year effectively unpaid, as that income is what the government takes each year?

PAYE high earners are bled dry because it is the easiest cohort from which to extract tax - often unable to move overseas, tax deducted at source, almost no exemptions other than shovelling money into pensions. That doesn’t mean that is the cohort from which it is fairest to extract more tax.

DH and I are closely watching the budget to decide whether we will move overseas. His employer has confirmed they can move him, and I can move on a spousal visa. DH’s salary will double in a country with lower taxation than the UK, giving me time to find work without us being financially pressured. We will take about £57,000 in annual income tax and NI contributions with us.

We would prefer to stay in the UK, but it is increasingly difficult to justify how much of our salaries are deducted, all whilst we’re surrounded by crumbling infrastructure, potholed roads, and ever decreasing public services.

The level of debt the UK is having to repay is what our increased tax will be put towards, not fixing the country.

Alexandra2001 · 03/11/2025 09:09

45k with pension and student loan repayments, is not great, you'd struggle to get a mortgage, for the UK average house price, on that.
& would more than likely, with kids, be on UC.

45k today is not the same as 45k in 2015, that would be £62k in todays money.

Low wage growth is why the top 3% on PAYE have to pay so much tax, once again, Austerity has caused us so many issues, further down the line.

EasternStandard · 03/11/2025 09:15

TightOnes · 03/11/2025 09:05

Sunak was right all along. Why did I think Starmer would be like the Blair years?

Taxes were relatively stable then.

Because the Blair years were part of the sell. The actual policies indicated otherwise pre GE, as few as they were beyond the trite slogans.

TightOnes · 03/11/2025 09:15

xSideshowAuntSallyXx · 03/11/2025 09:03

What a depressing thread, and what's more depressing are those who comment about how they worked hard, got into debt via university blah blah blah.

Like people under 45k don't work hard, didn't work hard enough or don't have a degree or university debt.

Nice to see prejudice is alive and well.

If someone's made poor choices in life and career who they have to blame? I understand people do have significant difficulties and setbacks in life. We all do.

I understand if people have had health issues, cancer, caring responsibilities, children with significant issues. But at some point when do you take responsibility for what you earn and bring to the table/economy?

EasternStandard · 03/11/2025 09:16

SquashedSquashess · 03/11/2025 09:05

The resentment towards anyone doing well in this country is astounding.

Imagine if the narrative was “we’re lucky to have a cohort of high earners who strive to achieve more, thanks to their earnings our welfare state can provide for those in need”

Perhaps that would reduce some of the resentment high earner have towards ever increasing taxation. Instead, it is always coupled with “pay your fair share”, “the broadest shoulders” etc

When I am paying almost half of my salary in tax, I think I am already paying my fair share.

Lower - mid earners in this country have a lower tax burden than in European countries. And yet it is always higher earners being shafted.

Put another way - why should I attend work for 5 months a year effectively unpaid, as that income is what the government takes each year?

PAYE high earners are bled dry because it is the easiest cohort from which to extract tax - often unable to move overseas, tax deducted at source, almost no exemptions other than shovelling money into pensions. That doesn’t mean that is the cohort from which it is fairest to extract more tax.

DH and I are closely watching the budget to decide whether we will move overseas. His employer has confirmed they can move him, and I can move on a spousal visa. DH’s salary will double in a country with lower taxation than the UK, giving me time to find work without us being financially pressured. We will take about £57,000 in annual income tax and NI contributions with us.

We would prefer to stay in the UK, but it is increasingly difficult to justify how much of our salaries are deducted, all whilst we’re surrounded by crumbling infrastructure, potholed roads, and ever decreasing public services.

The level of debt the UK is having to repay is what our increased tax will be put towards, not fixing the country.

Labour have breed and capitalised on the resentment. What a shame. We’ll all feel the outcomes.

TheNuthatch · 03/11/2025 09:24

twistyizzy · 03/11/2025 09:05

What like your prejudice by saying "what's more depressing are those who comment about how they worked hard, got into debt via university blah blah blah"?

This is Labour's MO, pitting groups against each other and causing division.

TightOnes · 03/11/2025 09:26

EasternStandard · 03/11/2025 09:15

Because the Blair years were part of the sell. The actual policies indicated otherwise pre GE, as few as they were beyond the trite slogans.

Like I've spent time reading about it. The Blair years were decent..yes they followed the fiscal plans of the Major years and inherited a growing economy. I don't think income tax was hiked? NI rose a bit and that funded the NHS.

Indirect taxes rose (but everyone had to pay them tbf) and they invested that in public services.

EasternStandard · 03/11/2025 09:29

TightOnes · 03/11/2025 09:26

Like I've spent time reading about it. The Blair years were decent..yes they followed the fiscal plans of the Major years and inherited a growing economy. I don't think income tax was hiked? NI rose a bit and that funded the NHS.

Indirect taxes rose (but everyone had to pay them tbf) and they invested that in public services.

My pp may have been a bit unclear, I meant the policies from Starmer pre GE indicated this vindictive poor policy making and fiscal ineptitude. I agree with you re Blair and I think this gov used it as part of a sell to get in.

RubySquid · 03/11/2025 09:33

OonaStubbs · 03/11/2025 08:44

Living off part time earnings is fine if you aren't claiming benefits as well.

Poster i quoted said better to work full time if you can. But why if you can work part time or live on savings?( not getting benefits as this seems to be what you are worrying about )

Apart from paying more tax to the government? Why would it be better to work full time

Rexinasaurus · 03/11/2025 09:35

Nolletimiere · 03/11/2025 08:03

45k today, 25k tomorrow.

To all those who voted Labour, and have yet to accept their error, be afraid, be very afraid, because they are coming for you too.

You've let the fox into the hen house…

Edited

The Wolf actually. As all good Fabian’s know. Labour actually are proud of calling themselves wolves in sheep’s clothing - they must be since most of them are members of the Fabian society. Says it all.

‘Fabian Society ~ Wolves in Sheeps Clothing. ~ The Labour Party’s Core Agendas.

The Fabian Society is an old group originating in England in 1884, with the tyrannical purpose of forming a single, global socialist state.

Their name comes from the Roman general Fabius, who was famed by carefully planned strategies to slowly wear down his enemies over a long period of time to obtain victory. “Fabian Socialism” uses incremental change over a long period of time to slowly transform a State in replacement of violent revolution for change.

It is essentially socialism by stealth. Their original emblem was a shield with a wolf in sheep’s clothing holding a flag with the letters F.S. Today the international symbol of the Fabian Society is a turtle, with the motto below: “When I strike, I strike hard.” ‘

twistyizzy · 03/11/2025 09:37

Rexinasaurus · 03/11/2025 09:35

The Wolf actually. As all good Fabian’s know. Labour actually are proud of calling themselves wolves in sheep’s clothing - they must be since most of them are members of the Fabian society. Says it all.

‘Fabian Society ~ Wolves in Sheeps Clothing. ~ The Labour Party’s Core Agendas.

The Fabian Society is an old group originating in England in 1884, with the tyrannical purpose of forming a single, global socialist state.

Their name comes from the Roman general Fabius, who was famed by carefully planned strategies to slowly wear down his enemies over a long period of time to obtain victory. “Fabian Socialism” uses incremental change over a long period of time to slowly transform a State in replacement of violent revolution for change.

It is essentially socialism by stealth. Their original emblem was a shield with a wolf in sheep’s clothing holding a flag with the letters F.S. Today the international symbol of the Fabian Society is a turtle, with the motto below: “When I strike, I strike hard.” ‘

👏👏

Which is exactly why I don't think any of this is incompetence, it's being done on purpose. Grind everything and everyone down.

OonaStubbs · 03/11/2025 09:39

I don't see the problem with people earning higher wages paying a little more in tax. Even with the increased tax they are still earning a lot more than people on lower wages.

NorthXNorthWest · 03/11/2025 09:39

RubySquid · 03/11/2025 09:33

Poster i quoted said better to work full time if you can. But why if you can work part time or live on savings?( not getting benefits as this seems to be what you are worrying about )

Apart from paying more tax to the government? Why would it be better to work full time

Working full time provides more tax revenue which in a well run government machine will feed into better public services with is a benefit for all. Does it need to be more than that?

AKA

Everyone holding up their end of the social contract.

twistyizzy · 03/11/2025 09:40

NorthXNorthWest · 03/11/2025 09:39

Working full time provides more tax revenue which in a well run government machine will feed into better public services with is a benefit for all. Does it need to be more than that?

AKA

Everyone holding up their end of the social contract.

Edited

Yet we have highest historic tax levels and public services are shit so your theory falls down.

TightOnes · 03/11/2025 09:41

OonaStubbs · 03/11/2025 09:39

I don't see the problem with people earning higher wages paying a little more in tax. Even with the increased tax they are still earning a lot more than people on lower wages.

We pay enough FFS. We pay enough. We already pay most of the countries taxes.

twistyizzy · 03/11/2025 09:41

OonaStubbs · 03/11/2025 09:39

I don't see the problem with people earning higher wages paying a little more in tax. Even with the increased tax they are still earning a lot more than people on lower wages.

Of course you don't, because it doesn't impact you. You're happy for people earning more than you to pay more. Are you happy to pay more?

Alexandra2001 · 03/11/2025 09:43

Rexinasaurus · 03/11/2025 09:35

The Wolf actually. As all good Fabian’s know. Labour actually are proud of calling themselves wolves in sheep’s clothing - they must be since most of them are members of the Fabian society. Says it all.

‘Fabian Society ~ Wolves in Sheeps Clothing. ~ The Labour Party’s Core Agendas.

The Fabian Society is an old group originating in England in 1884, with the tyrannical purpose of forming a single, global socialist state.

Their name comes from the Roman general Fabius, who was famed by carefully planned strategies to slowly wear down his enemies over a long period of time to obtain victory. “Fabian Socialism” uses incremental change over a long period of time to slowly transform a State in replacement of violent revolution for change.

It is essentially socialism by stealth. Their original emblem was a shield with a wolf in sheep’s clothing holding a flag with the letters F.S. Today the international symbol of the Fabian Society is a turtle, with the motto below: “When I strike, I strike hard.” ‘

Yeah apart from it was the Tories that gave us the highest taxes in WW2, gave us the lowest wage growth ever and took debt to gdp from 65% in 2010 to 88% in 2020 and then 100% after Covid....

On top of this, Truss wrecked ordinary peoples DC pensions, many have still not recovered, let alone grown in real terms.

But most importantly, Labour are as far removed from the Fabian ideals as Badenoch is from Edward Heaths views.

They had 14 years to put things right, they failed at every level.

Rexinasaurus · 03/11/2025 09:45

https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/rachel-reeves-speech-at-fabian-society-new-year-conference/

‘Labour will not waver in our commitment to fiscal responsibility.
I have been clear about the absolute importance of ensuring every line of our next manifesto is fully costed.
So let me tell you what a Labour government will do.
We will end the tax break which exempts private schools from paying VAT and business rates. {it wasn’t a tax break Rachel, you utter fool}
Because friends, private schools are many things, but they are not charities. {Who said all private schools are charities Rachel, you utter fool}
We will put that money where it belongs, into all our children’s futures: into our state schools. {Not done that have you. Shocker}
And we will end the non-dom tax status.
Because if you make Britain your home, you should pay your taxes here too. {Sure. So why do you let so many not pay any taxes at all?}
And under Labour you will.
We will put that money into one of the largest workforce expansions in the history of our NHS.
More doctors; more nurses; more midwives; more health workers. {where are they?}
That is what a Labour government will do.
I know that, in the months to come, many of you will play your part in making our shared ambitions a reality. {Piss off you liar}
Together, we will change Britain again – in that Fabian spirit. {🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮}
We will rescue our public services from Tory neglect.
Restore economic security to working people. {you’ve removed all of our economic security. Explain}
Support British businesses to lead in the global race. {You’ve done the opposite}
And build that fairer, greener Britain.
That is what a Labour government will do.
And friends, be in no doubt:
That government is coming soon.
Thank you.’
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

What a lot of shit, Friends.

Rachel Reeves speech at Fabian Society New Year Conference – The Labour Party

Friends, what a pleasure it is to be with you all again. This might come as a surprise, but I can’t help but feel it’s been a slow start to the political year. After the procession in and out of No.11 last year, it’s already the 21st January and I’ve s...

https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/rachel-reeves-speech-at-fabian-society-new-year-conference/

XanLovesHaribo · 03/11/2025 09:45

The way I see it - this country is being sucked dry by paying pensions, ballooning benefits bills, high housing costs and interest payments on existing debt. The first group were historically poor, but now sitting on vast wealth from housing (both their own residence and BTL) and personal pensions. They are taxed comparatively lightly, and use services more than anyone else.

Benefit payments have skyrocketed due to problems in the NHS/social care, a mental health crisis and corporations that have gotten used to paying low wages and having those topped up by the government.

Housing costs have increased as it's seen as a desirable leveraged investment which governments and interest groups haven't worked to fix.

It's also not been helped by previous governments underfunding the services we need, privatisation and corruption.

twistyizzy · 03/11/2025 09:45

Alexandra2001 · 03/11/2025 09:43

Yeah apart from it was the Tories that gave us the highest taxes in WW2, gave us the lowest wage growth ever and took debt to gdp from 65% in 2010 to 88% in 2020 and then 100% after Covid....

On top of this, Truss wrecked ordinary peoples DC pensions, many have still not recovered, let alone grown in real terms.

But most importantly, Labour are as far removed from the Fabian ideals as Badenoch is from Edward Heaths views.

They had 14 years to put things right, they failed at every level.

You want to get into Labour's current economic record? Happy to do so.
They had 14 years to prepare for 2024 yet that seemingly wasn't enough time for them to have a) a plan or b) competent people to carry a plan out

Idstillratherbepaddleboarding · 03/11/2025 09:45

NorthXNorthWest · 03/11/2025 09:39

Working full time provides more tax revenue which in a well run government machine will feed into better public services with is a benefit for all. Does it need to be more than that?

AKA

Everyone holding up their end of the social contract.

Edited

This social contract thing seems to be being bandied about a lot at the moment, but why should I uphold my end of the social contract (which I do to be fair) when there are millions of people not upholding theirs??

TightOnes · 03/11/2025 09:47

Alexandra2001 · 03/11/2025 09:43

Yeah apart from it was the Tories that gave us the highest taxes in WW2, gave us the lowest wage growth ever and took debt to gdp from 65% in 2010 to 88% in 2020 and then 100% after Covid....

On top of this, Truss wrecked ordinary peoples DC pensions, many have still not recovered, let alone grown in real terms.

But most importantly, Labour are as far removed from the Fabian ideals as Badenoch is from Edward Heaths views.

They had 14 years to put things right, they failed at every level.

Not everything the Tories did was perfect. Did they many good things especially on decarbonisation of our energy and promotion of renewables.

A lot of mistakes were made during COVID but we unlocked and did very well in 2021.

Truss was stupid, but then we had Sunak and he was great.

PandoraSocks · 03/11/2025 09:47

Rexinasaurus · 03/11/2025 09:35

The Wolf actually. As all good Fabian’s know. Labour actually are proud of calling themselves wolves in sheep’s clothing - they must be since most of them are members of the Fabian society. Says it all.

‘Fabian Society ~ Wolves in Sheeps Clothing. ~ The Labour Party’s Core Agendas.

The Fabian Society is an old group originating in England in 1884, with the tyrannical purpose of forming a single, global socialist state.

Their name comes from the Roman general Fabius, who was famed by carefully planned strategies to slowly wear down his enemies over a long period of time to obtain victory. “Fabian Socialism” uses incremental change over a long period of time to slowly transform a State in replacement of violent revolution for change.

It is essentially socialism by stealth. Their original emblem was a shield with a wolf in sheep’s clothing holding a flag with the letters F.S. Today the international symbol of the Fabian Society is a turtle, with the motto below: “When I strike, I strike hard.” ‘

Stephen Pollard, who used to work for the FS, wrote a really good article on this. Worth a read. The article in full is here, but a few snippets attached.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-truth-about-the-fabian-society/

Not an ordinary working person if you earn over 45k
Not an ordinary working person if you earn over 45k
Not an ordinary working person if you earn over 45k
twistyizzy · 03/11/2025 09:47

Idstillratherbepaddleboarding · 03/11/2025 09:45

This social contract thing seems to be being bandied about a lot at the moment, but why should I uphold my end of the social contract (which I do to be fair) when there are millions of people not upholding theirs??

Yes, those posters not upholding the social contract certainly do like to bandy the term around.

NorthXNorthWest · 03/11/2025 09:50

twistyizzy · 03/11/2025 09:40

Yet we have highest historic tax levels and public services are shit so your theory falls down.

No it doesn't. That is how it is supposed to work which is why a I put in a well run government machine. I didn't say this was a well run government machine.

Even allow for that, when the country is in the shit we need everyone to contribute to getting it out. Not just those with the broadest shoulders.

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