Cost of living or prioritising the wrong things 🤔

[Sbrown32]

Firstly, this is not to offend anyone, I just find it a interesting debate that I recently came across and wanted to know others opinions on this.

Is it the cost of living or are we prioritising the wrong things?

When I came across this, the woman who was discussing this topic had some really good points (in my opinion), back in the day, we prioritised differently, we didn't have a takeaway each week (guilty of this myself tbh), food deliveries on our phone, we didn't grab a coffee on the way to work every morning, family trips out to the cinema or nights out used to be a treat not a given etc

I am pregnant with my first, and looking at ways we can cut down on spending whilst I am on MAT leave, when I really looked into my spending habits I have realised that I do a lot of these myself, I get a coffee each morning usually with a breakfast meal deal of some sort, we have a takeaway each week and we spend a lot on going out, date nights, cinema trips and going to nice places to eat etc.

I haven't decided myself if I fully agree with this or not yet so please be respectful.

Agree with this. Doing things like coffees, a takeaway or a meal out with moderate frequency shouldn’t plunge people into their overdrafts, but it does.

It’s very tiring in here to read people telling posters struggling with the cost of living to simply cancel all their TV subscriptions, kids clubs and NEVER get a takeaway or a coffee. Those are not the elements driving people into money worries.

People used to be able to afford a home and decent life with one salary.
I think that's a bit of a rose-tinted view TBH.

What counted as a 'decent life' then was very different.
One car per household was normal, if you had a car at all. It was usually a basic model.
One week's holiday, maybe abroad.
Most DMs I knew worked part-time.
Nobody bothered about things like halloween decorations. Birthday parties were almost always held at home or, just possibly, in a church hall.

And most families ate out (even tea and cake) very, very rarely. We lived in a very small town that had about 10 food/drink outlets (cafe, pubs, chippies). The population has gone up a good 20% since, but the number of such outlets has more than doubled.

The world has really changed. Personally I wish that housing was much more affordable, but when you remember the days of affordable housing, it's worth remembering that 'a decent life' was very basic by modern standards.

@Sbrown32 You might be interested to listen to this podcast which looks at generational shifts in money, costs and attitudes to both. The academic interviewed makes the very good point that around 1990 through early 2000's the cost of non necessary things (eating out, travel, clothes) dropped. City breaks, tech (phones etc) and eating out because relatively affordable. At the same time the cost of really important things skyrocketed eg housing (renting or buying) education (university or courses to progress your career), childcare and pensions (funding a decent retirement). These are much much much bigger and more impactful costs. Wages meanwhile stagnated in real terms. The cost of living crisis is just that. Living costs, not nice to have costs. Childcare and housing is eye watering. If you weren't lucky enough to have parents who do childcare, gift you a deposit or let you live rent free to save then you're going to find it tougher now (much tougher) than previous generations (in comparable jobs). No ammount of cutting out latest or avocados on toast is going to make up for increased rents, mortgages and nursery costs.

The cost of living crisis is largely down to energy prices that impact everything we buy and these are grossly inflated by climate change resulting in us not using the cheap gas/coal/oil we have beneath our own feet. As well as the subsidies we have to pay for green energy.
We could and should have energy prices like Trump has achieved in the US (about a third of what we pay).
Just imagine how transformational for the economy and everyone's pocket energy prices at that level would be. Sadly we have Milliband and Starmer in charge making the poor even poorer.

They may not be, but they’re the elements they have control over. The housing market isn’t changing any time soon, wages aren’t suddenly going to increase significantly but most people can make cuts in spending. I know I could make significant savings if I needed to by reducing my kids extra curriculars, cutting tv subscriptions and being more mindful about buying stuff/paying for services I don’t need. Expectations of what people should have and be able to do have shifted hugely which puts pressure on people who struggle to do those things and means people prioritise them for discretionary spending and feel deprived if they can’t do them.

Some people won’t do a single thing on that list and still struggle.

You'll probably find quite a lot of those expenses go away when baby arrives anyway. Not on your way to work first thing = no coffee or breakfast out. Baby to feed all night = no date nights. Baby screams in restaurants = no eating in nice places! Saves a fortune!!

Things have definitely changed. I look back 25 years to my childhood. I was single parent household, my mum worked part time at the local supermarket and taught music privately two nights a week. We had a summer holiday to Scarborough once a year for a few years because my Grandma paid, and one or two days out to the seaside on sunny days were the best treat.

We never had a takeaway (I didn't have my first until I was 11 and living with my aunty temporarily and I had no idea what it was). We had no central heating, just two gas fires downstairs. No mobile phones or internet (even when the internet became a normal thing in households we couldn't afford it). I got a PAYG mobile for my 13th birthday.

Clothes and shoes were only bought when I had outgrown my current ones. We ate meat free meals at least three days a week, the rest of the time it was turkey or sometimes chicken. Lunch was a packet soup split between three of us and bread.

Sky TV was something only my friends parents could afford where both of them worked full time. Summer holidays were spent playing out on the street or listening to music in my room, there were never activities or days out to keep us occupied. I never went to see Santa, or to a fireworks display or the cinema. We didn't have a car, couldn't afford to run one.

We certainly wouldn't go out for lunch or grab a takeaway drink. I didn't have a meal out with my mum until my 18th birthday. I had a bike, a games console and a PC, all hand-me-downs from my aunty who I perceived to be "rich".

Lots of things are social pressures, Facebook etc has a lot to answer for. Money is spent on things that aren't needed but people feel like they have to keep up, be constantly doing things with their kids.

Some things we simply can't live without these days, internet, mobiles for example.

A lot of the food I ate as a child was processed rubbish that has done me no favours as an adult. There are a lot of children in that cycle now growing up, although processed food is marginally better than it was in the 90's. Really a plate of egg, chips done in a chip pan and beans is better for them and we ate that every week.

In a capitalist society, with each decade, the standard of living should improve. And overall it has. Then there's clear blips where that isn't the case - part of the 1970s, 2008 tona lesser extent. And now.

So in 2016, a regular takeaway, a coffee a few times a week and the cinema once a month were normal signs of an improved lifestyle. They weren't "extravagant".

Now, those same things are putting people in debt because the cost of our basic necessities - rent, the weekly food shop, utilities are climbing at an alarming rate. Yes, we can make lifestyle cuts so we can better afford the basics - but the reality is that we shouldn't have to. We might need to stagnate in our standards at times, but we shouldn't be going backwards. And we are.

So whilst yes, such things are now seen as normal whereas 20 years ago they were "fancy" but that doesn't mean we're prioritizing the wrong thing.

Yes and no.

I do understand that when people have no hope of buying a house or going on holiday, something like an occassional takeaway is really needed to keep the spirits up.

On the other hand, all those millions paying hundreds a month on mounjaro? Erm hang on? Likewise, apparently there are 23 million cats and dogs in the UK. How can there be a CoL crisis if people can so easily afford multiple pets?

The standard of living can’t keep improving exponentially though, we simply don’t have the natural resources to keep consuming more and more without consequence, which we’re seeing more and more environmentally. There was always going to be a reset.

We didn't need a deposit for a house, there were 100% mortgages. In 1994 we bought our house for £25k, my DH in an average builder role earned £12k a year (if he put the hours in). The same house now, in a now deprived area, Anfield Liverpool is £120k and the equivalent wage is only around £28k and a £10k deposit, plus £2k fees would be needed. We bought in the 80's and 90's and you'd only have to save £1k.

No it can't. But it's the premise a capitalist society is built on. And whether we like it or not (I don't) we do live in a capitalist society.

I'm not sure really. On one hand a lot of it is just genuinely cost of living. The cost of energy, food, rent, transport and so on is ever increasing while wages stagnate. On the other I know quite a few people who are currently very vocal about the cost of living, saying that the government must do something to allow people like them i.e. professionals in their late 30's to buy a home so they can have security, start families and so on. On the surface it sounds ok but everyone of them lives in rented flats in the bougiest part of town. You know the kind of area with artisan bakeries selling £5 + sourdough loafs, expensive independent coffee shops and so on. I get it it's really nice to live in an area like that, I used to live there myself but everybody wants to live there and so there is a lot of competition for rentals and to buy.

I realised we'd never be able to afford to buy there about 10 years ago and so we moved to a much cheaper area, saved like mad for a couple of years and bought this place 8 years ago and its now paid off. Its not fancy and in a very boring, uncool residential area but we now own out own home outright.

My friends complain how unjust it is that they cannot afford to buy in the area they rented it and how they are being forced out by rent increases but that's like me saying it's not fair I can't afford to live in the hippest part of London or Paris. I mean we'd all like to live somewhere lovely but most of us have to just buy what we can realistically afford. I know couples in their 50s now who must have paid 100's of thousands in rent over the years and for a lot of them it was just bad decision making. I'm sure they will be ok due to what their parents will leave them and none of what I've said changes the real difficult many people have in securing a home or being able to pay for the basics but in my own peer group I also see a lot of entitlement.

Well I logged every single cent I spent in October and here is a shock of all shocks, I spent 800 euro more than necessary. That was not any big purchases it is popping to the shop for milk and spending 40euro on other bits and bobs also, wanting a bottle of wine and then getting too lazy to cook so ordering in pizza etc. From yesterday I am on a frugal month to see exactly how much I squander as I have a full tank of petrol, house full of groceries etc etc. I have an addiction to frivolity shopping.

Students give an interesting reflection.
in 1980s students lived in very basic shared houses after first year in reasonably priced very basic uni halls. Shared bathrooms etc. Heating only on off freezing. Grub on a grant was cheap simple food. No takeaways. Buying coffee in uni was a treat. Dito buying food on campus. Walked not bus to save cash. Drank cheaply & lived in same clothes for 3 years unless birthday or Xmas presents.
now; lovely purpose built flats (£££), en suites, lunch is meal deals, uber not walk, buy lots clothes (albeit fast fashion), takeaway deliveries etc
Generalisation obviously but I do think expectations are skewed but see it with my kids. They think a £3.50 meal deal if cheap and doesn’t occur to them they could make it for £1

That was the same in the late 90s where I went to university - anyone know when it changed?

Was going to say what @Frequency said, but I think they said it perfectly.

When developers realised they could make money from students (or more realistically their parents). The amount of new student housing in Glasgow is ridiculous and not cheap, but with three universities it’s a safe bet for developers.

It’s definitely both.

Also, people are comparing to the period of prosperity between the late 1990s and the late 2000s, or even late 2010s. They’re not comparing to the 1970s or 1980s. When you understand this, the complaints about not affording a yearly overseas holiday or eating out every week make more sense.

@LaserPumpkin @eurotravel I remember in the 2000's many students were starting to get loans out to pay for more "fun" spending buying nice new clothes, fancy haircuts, eating out. I think there were genuinely more costs like by then most everyone had a phone and a laptop, extra costs for broadband and contracts. I went to uni in Edinburgh and to be fair the flats we lived in as students were amazing (if you know you know), one student flat I lived in went for half a million a few years ago so in my case I don't think the new accommodations are an upgrade but I think the expected standard of living of the average student did go up and a lot of it probably was debt, at least back then.

To be honest, I don't really compare myself or 1970 or 1990. Or think I did this in 1997 can a young person do that exact thing now. Thers so many variables.

I just think can I personally get as much from my money as I could a year or two ago and I cant.

Didn’t say they were. But people are still reasonable in being able to expect to keep them without dire repercussions.

Why don't you?

Yeah, I have also been trying to cut back already. I have a coffee at home (only have one a day due to being pregnant anways) and lucky I am able to make breakfast at work. I have started making lunch at work too and it has helped a lot.

I have said we are having a takeaway free month in November and actually doing a good meal plan/shop etc.

We have also been doing date nights at home, spending £3.50ish on a film and getting a M&S or Tesco dinning in deal. Its amazing how much you save!

We won't save much on travel as we are buying a car and petrol and insurance will be about the same as our weekly tickts but think this is worth it and means when we want to go on days out it won't be as much as a pain with taking our own food etc.

I think its just a shock sometimes when you actually look at your spends!