Cost of living or prioritising the wrong things 🤔

[Sbrown32]

Firstly, this is not to offend anyone, I just find it a interesting debate that I recently came across and wanted to know others opinions on this.

Is it the cost of living or are we prioritising the wrong things?

When I came across this, the woman who was discussing this topic had some really good points (in my opinion), back in the day, we prioritised differently, we didn't have a takeaway each week (guilty of this myself tbh), food deliveries on our phone, we didn't grab a coffee on the way to work every morning, family trips out to the cinema or nights out used to be a treat not a given etc

I am pregnant with my first, and looking at ways we can cut down on spending whilst I am on MAT leave, when I really looked into my spending habits I have realised that I do a lot of these myself, I get a coffee each morning usually with a breakfast meal deal of some sort, we have a takeaway each week and we spend a lot on going out, date nights, cinema trips and going to nice places to eat etc.

I haven't decided myself if I fully agree with this or not yet so please be respectful.

"Now there’s an expectation that a minimum wage wage job will allow you to do all that and more, that you can work part time because the state will fill the gap and when anyone suggests you don’t need the latest iPhone, or to buy lunch every day there are cries that a working person should be able to afford it. For decades a low income meant you were paying for housing, utilities and food."

@Jellycatspyjamas I don't think anyone working a minimum wage job has thought this in the last 15 years. Plenty of younger people have no car, can't even afford driving lessons. I just don't see what you are describing, especially with the younger generation who seem to get little to no credit for having common sense. The younger people I know are very clued up. I do live in a poorer area of the country, maybe expectations are different down south.

I think a bit of both but I don’t think people prioritise very well. It’s half term week we've gone out & done nice things but I’ve taken a flask of tea with me and a lunchbox for the kids whereas all my mum friends buy things out ect and moan about the costs! We rent and are saving to buy so every penny counts. The same with birthdays and Christmas we buy things the kids need and a couple of wants rather than endless items!

I think that is the point.. "due to cheap credit", 2008 Financial Crash to COVID, interest rates were almost zero, this inflated all assets, but people still felt rich. Nobody questioned do I feel rich because of what I'm doing, or in spite of what I'm doing? The situation was never going to last, it was never "a new paradigm" and one day the party would end. As the famous quote says "A rising tide floats all boats….. only when the tide goes out do you discover who’s been swimming naked." The reason people feel poorer now is that the tide is going out,

I’m not down south, I’m in Scotland and not in a particularly affluent part. Most of my friends have older teens/early adults leaving uni and starting out and I’d say there’s a clear split between half being very common sense in their approach and half being deeply disappointed that their entry level job won’t pay for a flat in the west end.

There’s also a fair number of younger mums bemoaning that things are very tight while working 16 hours a week - of course things will be tight on a part time single wage.

Everything gets labelled cost of living crisis, and of course we’re seeing the impact of higher costs of just about everything, but society has also shifted in terms of what a basic lifestyle looks like, and the extent to which the state should subsidise that lifestyle.

In fairness, some kind of takeaway is sometimes cheaper than cooking for my family of four when including meat and energy costs etc.

On my student analogy I didn’t include phone / iPads as there are a necessity not a luxury. But I think the switch from
frugal students on a grant trying to avoid an over draft was when fees and loans came in. The average student probably leaves with £30-50k debt (?) that they pay off forever or never so they just think ‘what’s a few more £100 on the total…’
When I was 21 it was still a big deal to get a credit card never mind multiple ones.
so tbh running up huge debts was hard as banks would often refuse people bigger over drafts.
So credit / loans allowed a better life style and raises the ‘norm’ re spending day to day.

But it is also a consequence of planning policy. Local authorities don't want large numbers of students in HMOs in the private rented sector, they want those homes to be for families as originally designed. A requirement for many universities to expand has been to build more purpose built student accommodation. And the cost of construction has gone up so much that those schemes are only viable to build it they are charging premium rents.

On my student analogy I didn’t include phone / iPads as there are a necessity not a luxury.

Phone I agree with, but an iPad is definitely a luxury.

I just finished a fairly technical course of study. I was the oldest on the course by far, and most of the other students insisted they needed a £££ MacBook. They didn’t. My £300 Windows laptop got me through just fine (and they couldn’t install some of the software on their fancy MacBooks anyway). So I think there are definitely differences in expectations.

True, I wonder what will happen as the university sector continues to contract, as students opt out of traditional tertiary education because the accumulated student debt isn’t reflected in future earnings.

And if the number of international students continues to decrease

I said IPad as now they are as cheap often as a cheap laptop sorry. I didn’t mean anything fancy.

We don't do any of that we've budgeted for years and would not get a coffee each day or buy drinks like that.
We budget and somerimes budget for a takeaway.

It's not just SB though, or avocado toast.

It's all kinds of things that add up because we now expect to have a lot more.

Eating out quite often compared to the past.. Some people have lunch from a shop every day they work.

Pople travel a lot more, vacation more. They have a lot more clothing that gets replaced far more often. Many families have two cars.

Pets - not more, but people take them to the vets more often, they go to doggy daycare, they often eat fairly expensive foods.

Holidays - far more gifts for more people. More special outings. More Haloween decor. Gifts at Easter.

Parties and gifts for baby showers, weddings, etc, expectations to travel to things like this.

Health products - hair, make-up and skin, getting a good hair cut, many people colour their hair.

Kids activities.

And also admin - I think people spend huge amounts on house insurance, car insurance, apartment insurance, other fees for things.

This sin't the really skint. but they are the expectations now that many people see as basics in a middle class lifestyle, and they do add up, a lot.

Things we take for granted now they didn’t have back in the day, such as cars, phones,streaming services, they didn’t spend money on eating out or going out, or if they did it was a rare treat. They didn’t buy loads of clothes or shoes. Things were made to last. My granny didn’t do a weekly shop, she bought each day as she needed so food wasn’t wasted.

@witheringrowan is correct that in theory building purpose build student flats frees homes up for private rental which helps relieve the housing crisis generally.
But private rents are high in comparison to social housing so it doesn’t really work as well as it should. Rents in my area are eye watering. Ex student houses are now shared young professionals but each paying £600-1000 a month each. 30 years ago those people may well have been buying their first flat with a 5% mortgage deposit .
New student flats may share kitchens but en suite each is the norm & a lot are studios so no need to share.

@Jellycatspyjamas maybe people will return to vocational tertiary education and then realise less debt and decent earnings. I think the tide may turn on that in next 5-10 years. I know a lot of parents thinking like that. ‘Get a trade and not a degree that may not lead to a job’.
However a lot of students don’t seem to care re loans and just want to go enjoy the experience anyway.
I’ve been talking to loads of people on the recently we all have kids around those ages 17-25

I may be wrong but the Ave % of earnings going on rent or mortgage has gone steadily up I think. So less for other things? And leasehold costs too for a lot of flat / shared ownership schemes

I am seeing more parents here in Canada thinking that university degree is not the way to go unless the student is really especially suited to that type of education. People are not looking at it as more aspirational, as much as they used to, which i think is a good thing.

I think people are realising that many paths can lead to a good income and satisfaction. My kids have not failed to notice that the builder who lives next door to us, or my hairdresser, both make a lot more money than many families we know where people have degrees (including our own.)

There still seem to be certain sectors that want degrees but could probably do as well with a more technical type of education. I think eventually they will see that, because increasingly great prospective who can't afford university will not be part of their employee pool and that will be seen as a disadvantage. (Also, new hires won't have as much debt so may be able to get by with somewhat less pay.)

Once that happens, I suspect many will not bother with degrees and will try another educational approach.

People did less of some things but more of others, and lots of things that are expensive now used to be very cheap.

My grandfather told me lots of times what cinemas and music halls cost relative to wages & it was much more affordable, as were things like fish & chips. He went dancing with my grandmother every week.

Tea & things like scones were very cheap in cafes.

I do think people don't notice how affluent life has become. We all own a lot of "stuff".

comedycook,we don't need 2 phones, we've done away with the landline. What does it save, buying another phone and a monthly bill.

Fish and chips were definitely much cheaper even in the 80s/90s. My grandparents used to buy that for 6 people most Saturdays and they were living on probably the equivalent of £200/week for both of them, and had to pay rent out of that. No way could someone on that income do that today - I’ve just looked at the menu for their local chippy and it would cost about £12.50 per portion, so £75.

Of course it should begin at home but many parents can't budget and it becomes a vicious circle.
DS1 is 6 - his school has had sessions from building societies on saving money and how to work out spending in an age appropriate way. Personally I think it's brilliant to introduce to all children early.

If he wants something special or a particular he knows he saves up for it from "working" (his chores) to get it. But from speaking with friends we are in the minority that do this.

I agree that we spend more these days but I'd say a lot of my own expenses are to help be timely or for ease on a busy day. I'll grab the kids mcdonalds on days we are running between school and sports club for example. There are no local community centre run clubs around us these days. Also there is a lot of after school commitments these days, more parents evenings, shows, fundraising etc etc. We also don't live within walking distance of grandparents so spend time travelling, partner travels over 2hrs for work each way.

What I'm saying is a lot of our extra expenses like a quick meal, or asda delivery etc is down to time or lack of it as there is much more time pressure on everyone these days as things have expanded to outwith the local walking distance. My great grandparents all lived, worked etc within their local areas and kids could roam free to school or clubs without relying on parents to get them there and back safely. The world has changed as has the demands on the people in it.

Lots of very good points.
We have a lot of ‘stuff’ .. so true.. how many of us had a half term clear out!! Clothes especially I’d say generally. (I never throw them out)
People often travel further for things (albeit covid made working at home more acceptable).
The people I know I’d be most envious off are actually self employed with a trade, earning decent money and never short of work.

Im pretty sure in the 70s/80s after school clubs were rare and childcare costs minimal as more women stayed home.
We had little money but fish and chips twice a month was a cheap treat unlike now (££)
Society as a whole has changed

I don’t really do those things.

if you do those things then that’s great that you have the financial wriggle room.

I don’t have that financial wiggle room to ‘prioritise the wrong things’

hth