To expect Sunday Dinner as the agreement?

[TipJarTroubadours]

Small details changed but the short of it is:

1. We allow people to stay in self contained accommodation for 'free'
2. The only 'cost' is attendance to Sunday dinner
3. Aibu to refuse to let someone stay (or charge them market rent) if they don't attend dinner

The long of it is

DH and I own a residential static caravan site. It has been in DH family a long time. It has great transport links to a major city.

We allow close family/friends to stay rent free whilst they attend uni in the city/start a new job. We have had 15 different people over the years, some for six months, the longest five years.

Currently house DS and nephew who are both at uni and DHs best friends daughter and her partner who has just started an apprenticeship. All four attend Sunday dinner, as have the 15 beforehand.

(For those that are interested, I cook the meal and then they take turns to make/buy a pudding and wash up (most goes in the dishwasher) I have had one with severe allergies who used to bring their own food, and one that was fussy so I used to make them beans on toast every Sunday. )

My sister's son has been living with us since September, I was very clear on the rules- it might seem odd but for a 10k saving a year I expect attendance at one meal a week.- they both knew about this.
Since starting he has attended one, preferring to go to the pub/gym/game on a Sunday. It has been raised with him and we have said if he doesn't attend then we will charge him rent (we have other uni students renting although they are all mature)

I have gone to my parents for half term and have just met my sister and told her the same. My parents and her think I am completely unreasonable to ask him to attend Sunday dinner, I think they are completely unreasonable to expect me to house him for free after agreeing to my rules ( there are costs involved for me, utilities etc plus not being able to rent it out)

I've said he has to attend tomorrow or I will bill them from now until Christmas and if it isn't paid will evict at Christmas.

Am I being unreasonable to expect my nephew to do what he agreed to in return for accommodation? (I don't think I am, even if expecting to attend dinner is unreasonable, he has agreed to the terms, he could have just rented halls)

OP already mentioned in their 16:40 update "Some of those that have moved on saved what it would have cost to rent and were able to put down decent deposits - plus all of them now choose to come back for dinner a few times a year, and they don't get free accommodation anymore!"

I would say we are pretty close. No one’s nc, we see each other on a regular basis. We don’t holiday together and we’re not a huge family, just pretty bog standard stuff. No one’s ever complelled to do something though, we see each other purely through choice. None of us are ones for rigid traditions or anything. A few board games at Christmas is about the extent of ‘traditions’.

She sets exactly which meal - and all guests have to go to the same one. He can’t say “Sundays are often busy for me, could I pop in on Wednesdays to see you?” It has to be Sunday night.

I couldn't stay away!

This is basically it.
I don't see how it is controlling to tell someone up front what the deal is. If you are happy to attend a meal once a week, I am happy to host you. For the other 6 days (and most of the 7th) you can do as you please. How is this gaslighting/abusive/controlling.

Nephew is not destitute, I was very clear what the deal was. I have talked more with my family and it is clear he has the funds similar to other uni students.

I am not doing this for any notion of kindness or recognition (I don't understand the posts about doing it to look like a happy family - who would be looking?) it isn't a gift, a gift is without strings. It is an offer.

The catty remarks about the caravans being unable to rent on the open market are way off- it is a choice we have made, I am aware of our privilege.

It isn't that I don't care about him, I just believe that as adults we have choices and linked consequences.

I mean…it IS weird and it IS super bloody controlling…but if you’d only be a little more flexible with WHICH ‘one meal a week’ they had to attend, people might be able to stomach it! Obviously they’d need to say when they were free that week in advance…but this might be more palatable.

I still can’t get my head round this whole concept though…I’d be sat there with such a miserable fucking face every week! Ah well…worth it right OP…?👍🏻🤷‍♀️

I worked in a bank for 15 years. Believe me, people resent banks.

And no, I don’t feel gratitude to the bank, there is almost zero risk to them for “taking a chance” on me. It’s not A Wonderful Life, they didn’t do it out of the kindness of their hearts because they care about the community. If I become ill or something and can’t work and can’t pay they sell my house for a profit. If I go on through the rest of the lifetime of the product then they’ve made loads of profit from me also. Mortgage books are profitable.

There’s nothing wholesome about forcing people to spend every Sunday dinner with you, regardless of their wishes and other responsibilities and plans. You and OP have the most fucked up mindset about relationships if you think that coercion and control are wholesome because coercion and control are exactly what this scenario involves. It takes what could be a lovely appealing occasion and turns it into a threat and a burden. It’s like the difference between being offered a lovely piece of cake with your tea and someone plonking it down in front of you and demanding that you eat it now, whether or not you like cake, if you’re hungry or not, it doesn’t matter if you want cake, you’re eating it like it or not and you have to return in a week and do the same.

And no, no fawning over a man here because I won’t have another man in my home because I want to continue to avoid living with sinister control obsessed freaks.

an 18-20 year old uni student is far from a full-grown adult. They still need guidance.

Full-grown adults support themselves, for example, they don't make arrangements for free accommodation and then renege on the two-hour-per-week commitment they made in return.

That poster for whatever reason won’t have a word said against OP.

And what about the free three-room caravan aspect of the equation? Is there anything sinister about basically stealing hundreds of pounds a month from a well-meaning relative who just wants two hours of your time per week in return?

The nephew is a lying mooch. the OP has stuck to her end of the bargain.

Again why is this so important to you, OP? Not that I think that you’ll answer but I can’t imagine there being much pleasure in knowing that at least one of my guests is there under duress. It’d spoil the whole occasion for me(And the guest)

You sound weird and controlling.

But why Sunday night dinner?! Why?!

What do you gain from this condition?!

You must feel it benefits you in some way or you’d not be bothered.

I like it. Its like saying "we'll allow close friends and family to stay for free." "Wrll how do you draw the line between who's close friends and family and who isn't " "if you'd have Sunday dinner with them they are close friends and family."

If you wouldn't have Sunday dinner with someone then you're not close enough to expect free housing off them.

I get it. You're saying we're sharing this with you because we think we have a good relationship, if you can't even have a meal with us clearly we're not that close so you can't expect us to house you for free.

At the end of the day, the rules were made clear, they can't have thought it was a joke as its a long standing deal with multiple people. They agreed, they didn't follow the agreement, jobs a good un.

Yes you are being unreasonable

I think people are missing the point?

I think it’s because this involves several smaller caravans on one site.

many parents (or relatives etc) when housing their own children, friends, nephews etc say “don’t treat my house like a hotel” because their lodgers come and go without even saying hello or offering to help around the house when they’re being subsidised by their parents.

if you think in that context, while not actually parents, his Aunt has said “don’t treat my house like a hotel”. Come say hello. Share a meal. (He doesn’t even pay for it!) There are others there. Would he rather “pay” for his stay literally or by her insisting he did all the grounds work on site or something? Perhaps offer that as an alternative OP 😂

They can either afford to lose £10k a year or they can’t. In fact they have, currently 4 people partaking of this particular arrangement (including remarkably her own son). So a possible £30k (assuming the couple share) loss. Either this couple are breathtakingly cavalier businesspeople, or they can afford not to collect the rent.

If it’s the latter then this seems like an utterly bizarre way to treat family, again including their own son. “Stay in this place that we have. That we can afford to let you stay in for free, but if you don’t do this thing we say, then you must pay”. Yea absolutely golden way to model healthy family relationships

I don't understand this arrangement at all. Wouldn't you prefer to have Sunday dinner with people that want to spend time with you instead of people being coerced to?

Charging rent would be perfectly fine and fair and much more honest and less batshit than forcing people to have a meal with you every week. As others have said you can put anything into a contract and others may agree to it but that doesn’t make it reasonable or fair just because it’s in writing.

I can see why OP’s guests are disbelieving that she could be so incredibly controlling to demand their attendance every Sunday regardless of their wishes, plans and needs.

Yes, she would.

Which is why she has offered to release nephew from the agreement he finds so unpalatable. He's not being forced to do anything.

She would prefer to be raking in hundreds of pounds more per month than to be dining with a sullen, begrudging freeloader. Who wouldn't?

Nephew can't have it both ways.

Im not sure the arrangements have suited many other guests. Between the person requiring beans on toast and those bringing their own food the vibe is definitely that people are there because they have to be rather than enjoyment.

YANBU in the sense that the rules are clear but I would just pay the rent (probably would just live somewhere less weird tbh). I’m happy to pay my way, I’m grateful when people do me favours, but I’m physically repulsed by coercion. I just don’t think I could stand it. If it was free rent in exchange for odd jobs that had to be done on Sundays then I’d be on board but there is something inherently vile about having to be paid to do something that should be done freely, for pleasure. Lots of people have issues around coercion and being controlled that they don’t want to have to explain.

It is not toxic.

If you stay here - you either a - pay rent at x amount a month - or b - come to dinner once a week and live rent free

Make your choice.

If you decided you didn't want to go to lunch - because the in-laws were creepy - it ate into your free time - whatever.. then don't go - but the consequence is you pay the rent.

WHY should they be entitled to free rent? I would not let someone live rent free in my house - why should the OP?

If she had said 'yes .. come live rent free'.. then once they did said .. now you have to come to tea or I will evict you its creepy as the goalposts had moved

But these are your friends and family. Why on earth would you not just want to help them without such a controlling and weird demand?

Why did you bother coming on here when you have no intention of looking at your weird ‘offer’ from other people’s perspectives. Why not get him to do something practical instead of this absurd Sunday Night Dinner every freaking Sunday that even your own mother thinks is ridiculous!